Would YOU vote for RON PAUL

I actually plan on casting my vote for him.

While it would be nice, it won't happen. I don't say that to spit out your cigarette, stomp on your sandcastle, or wrinkle what's on your ironing board. Look at the polls. Every election Paul has been in was almost exactly like this. He is almost always dead last and its for a reason. Not that hes a bad guy, or people don't like his choice in ties but because he is directly opposite from the other candidates. He is not afraid of speaking his real mind, and his ideas actually carry some weight. People don't know how to deal with that. Its like putting a 10lb cake in front of an anorexic and telling them to eat the whole thing in 30 minutes BUT you give them the option to choose one of three different flavors of a much smaller cake. This cake will be given to them gradually over the next day or so and they get no more cake.

This thing is, people have been sworn to political mediocrity in this country. They sit quietly while the soft spoken/heavy headed leader takes all of us on a joy ride through his side's vision of what we should be. Though they spend so long campaigning, and lets face it 4 years isn't that long in politics. That by the time he steps out, it still looks just like it was before. Wanna know why? The system is broken and so are most of the politicians. Even if the politics/politicians were fine and honest as can be, it would do no good. What good does it do to throw a new driver at the same piece of shit car every four years?

Rusted juggernauts. Corruption has eroded away at the bolts. They aren't moving anymore. Ron Paul is what this country needs right now to be sure. His policy would cleanse the political landscape and set a standard that would ensure future presidents be as committed. But Ron Paul isn't what the people want. They gave people the illusion of big change with obama. According to my watch its right about time for the Americans to have a nice long 4 years of not shit getting done. Maybe another war, who knows?

Its like a sad, disgusting sitcom. I'm loosing touch with it to be honest with you. I honestly don't give a shit anymore. I just want to live my life and be done with it.

 

Balbus,

Everyone is aware of the fact that during the last financial crisis, the Federal Reserve secretly conducted the biggest bailout in the history of the world, and it fought tooth and nail in court for several years to keep it a secret. Do you remember that? Of course you do.

But in case you've forgotten, here it is again:

Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion
"All Other Borrowers" - $2.639 trillion

_______________________________________

And you're ok with this because . . .

 

While you made a great case against the Fed, and I agree, if you look through the post in this thread the main reason most people will not give Paul their vote is his environmental policies, or I should say lack of. Until these policies change drastically he stand no chance.

 

Thousands of post-1980 wells are exempt from the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act (CERCLA) that holds most industries accountable for cleaning up hazardous waste. The act, passed in 1980 and amended in 1986, allows the federal government to respond to releases of hazardous substances that threaten human health or the environment. It created a trust fund known as “Superfund” to be used to clean up contaminated sites; the fund is financed via taxes on the chemical and petroleum industries. Congress has since abolished the taxes and pays for the fund through general revenues. As a result, the fund is too small to meet cleanup goals. Yet the liability exemption for drilling companies remains (Mall et al. 2007, CERCLA 2008).
National Environmental Policy Act.

___________________________________

What would cost the people less, dragging these people to court and making them pay for their infractions, or making taxpayers pay for the clean-up?

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The National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), enacted in 1969, also exempts certain oil and gas drilling activities, obviating the need to conduct environmental impact statements (EIS) (BLM 2008).
The exemption, enacted by Congress in 2005, effectively shifts the burden of proof to the public to prove that such activities would be unsafe. In 2006 and 2007, the BLM granted this exemption to about 25 percent of all wells approved on public land in the West (BLM Budget 2009).

http://www.ewg.org/reports/Free-Pass...try-Exemptions

Where is the EPA when you really need them?

 

I did vote for him.... I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal

 

Storch



To repeat - My problem with the right wing libertarian argument about the FED is that they seem to want to take a hammer to the system without having a viable alternative and what’s worse they don’t seem to care that they don’t have a viable alternative it seems like another case of ideological beliefs outweighing rational thought.

 

By implication, you're saying, "Better to be robbed than to do something about the robber." I hear you loud and clear.

Perhaps if everyone got on board with the beginning idea that something must be done, rather than opting to continue being robbed and fighting for the right of others to do it to you, something might be done!!

_________________________________________

Did you miss this:

Inflation Correctly Defined:
Recall that as the debt grows exponentially due to the
accumulating interest, more and more money must be created
just to pay the interest for the debt - which is expanding
exponentially.

This process sets up a chronic and ever-worsening shortage of
money relative to debt, as the DUM equation shows.
Over time, wages and prices must rise just to pay the interest
costs, never mind the ACTUAL cost of goods and services.
Therefore inflation in a debt dominant money system, such
as the Fed, is correctly defined as "debt-induced currency devaluation.
_________________________________________________

By the mid 1700’s England was in a lot of debt and looked to the colonies for revenue. Because the colonies were prospering so nicely during this period, Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) was called before the British Parliament during one of his visits to London in 1757 and asked how he could account for the new found prosperity in the colonies. Franklin replied:

"That is simple. In the colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the
consumers. In this manner, creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to any one."

All of the above, and a complete explanation of the money system, can be found here:

http://www.thetwofacesofmoney.com/files/money.pdf

It is well worth the read.

 

I will see you later, as I am pressed for time right now.

 

Well I know where the EPA was when I really needed them, right where they should of been, doing what they were supposed to be doing, stopping polluters from dumping waste into the Great Lakes watershed. As for taking a corporation to court to sue for environmental damages is a joke. Suing them after the fact is a ridiculous concept as the damage has been done and fully cleaning up their mess is impossible. Not to mention the corporate lawyers being able to tie up cases for years if not decades. I am very familiar with superfund sites as several of them are in my area, 25 odd years later those sites are still unfit for people to live in. And correct me if I am wrong but Paul plans on allowing oil exploration and drilling wherever oil is found.

 

I just showed you that money bought the oil companies out of trouble, and that they were aided by Congress. Did you miss that?

EDIT: And I'm not talking about politicians. I'm talking about holding people accountable in a real way for what they do.

 

Balbus,

Philosophically speaking, when something wrong has been done, that's a mistake. When you don't correct that problem, that's another mistake. And it can only get worse as time goes by; sort of like compound interest, if you know what I mean.

 

No I caught that and was aware of the CERCLA. Its pretty general knowledge that Congress and big oil walk hand in hand and money buys them out of trouble all the time. I do not know perhaps something was lost in your link as it did not come up and I have no time for searching right now. Maybe I'm a bit confused but how does taking off what little restraint there is on big oil/coal would be a benefit to our environment. I am not saying that the environmental policies in effect today are not in need of a total overhaul and Washington is not poisoned by corruption and money, it is. I do not however think the solutions are going to come from Pauls policies or anyone elses for that matter.

 

yellowcab,

Sorry about the link. Try this one:

http://www.ewg.org/reports/Free-Pass-for-Oil-and-Gas/Oil-and-Gas-Industry-Exemptions

You are correct. The EPA is necessary. And it needs to do something about this:

Today there are more than 2,000 abandoned uranium mines in the Southwest. U.S. government agencies have done little or nothing to clean up contaminated sites and abandoned mines. At Rare Metals near Tuba City on the Diné (Navajo) Nation a layer of soil and rock is the only covering over 2.3 million tons of hazardous waste. A rock dam surrounds the radioactive waste to control runoff water that flows into nearby Moenkopi Wash. Throughout the Diné Nation, Diné families have been subject to decades of radioactive contamination ranging from unsafe mining conditions to living in houses built from uranium tailings. Well water is documented by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as undrinkable in at least 22 communities such as Black Falls on the Dine’ Nation. According to the EPA, “Approximately 30 percent of the Navajo population does not have access to a public drinking water system and may be using unregulated water sources with uranium contamination.”

More on that:

http://www.indigenousaction.org/uranium-mining-begins-near-grand-canyon/

Admittedly, I have no idea about what can be done about things like the above. But you are right.

I think I'm going to study this issue more.

 

House GOP Submit Grand Canyon Uranium Mining Rider To ...

House GOP Submit Grand Canyon Uranium Mining Rider To Transportation Bill.
By Public Lands Team on Feb 14, 2012 at 12:10 pm. By Jessica Goad ...
http://thinkprogress.org/green/2012...-uranium-mining-rider-to-transportation-bill/ Yes but you see its GOP standard policy to try and let big corporations to have their way over the environment chasing profits, none of them care about anything or anyone who gets in their way as long as the money is there. Paul or any other GOP runner would try their hardest to get rid of all regulations preventing corporate destruction of the environment as long as there is money to be made. To me this is more important as its the only environment we have and using our voices to stand up against those would profit by exploiting the Earth and those who live on it is proving to be a stronger tool of change than anyone would have thought. The city of Buffalo has recently imposed a ban on fracking as well as neighboring towns and villages mostly because people making their voices heard. I have learned enough about this practice to know that it is very damaging to the environment and is thought to be the source of earthquakes in Ohio recently. And then there is mountain top removal coal mines that I really dont want to get started on.

 

I agree. The thing is, I'm not for any candidate. I don't vote because it is meaningless since there is no firing of someone who doesn't keep campaign promises. None of them do. Sometimes, tradition is the most damaging aspect of life, as in the case of elections.

Since energy is an issue, and both oil and uranium spell trouble in their own right, what is the answer?

With any candidate, there is trouble. When it comes to war for profit, and the deaths of a million innocent people, and those who defend it, I come loaded for bear. It's just my nature. The same for those who defend the political system that houses those who embrace the ripoff of the population.

Perhaps there is no answer outside of the evolution/growth of the masses. That is, so long as billions of humans bow to a handful of people who have shown them in no uncertain terms that the seats of power are pursued by those seeking power for all the wrong reasons, there will be no change.

Who knows?

 

Storch

LOL – that’s it - jump out of the airplane first then go looking for the parachute later.

TOO REPEAT - My problem with the right wing libertarian argument about the FED is that they seem to want to take a hammer to the system without having a viable alternative and what’s worse they don’t seem to care that they don’t have a viable alternative it seems like another case of ideological beliefs outweighing rational thought.

TOO REPEAT - My problem with the right wing libertarian argument about the FED is that they seem to want to take a hammer to the system without having a viable alternative and what’s worse they don’t seem to care that they don’t have a viable alternative it seems like another case of ideological beliefs outweighing rational thought.

*

Sorry Storch but I think your problem can be summed up in another comment of yours –

I admire your passion and your rage but charging blindly into battle without knowledge or a plan is not a solution but much more likely the prelude to a tragic disaster.

 

Yes, yes, Balbus, you keep laughing. But if you think the solution to robbery is to let it continue--which I assume you are more than happy to do--that's your prerogative. Do you think it's a coincidence that you stand alone in your foxhole defending the status quo? Makes you look like a traitor. I'm not saying that you are a traitor; I'm just saying that you really appear to be one. That's all . . .

Anyway, now that you understand that the robbery is taking place--and there's no way you could not understand that--what do you propose we do about it? That question is rhetorical, as you've already answered it many times. If you're afraid of the big boys, fine. But defending them makes you look like a coward. I know it feels safe in your foxhole, but when people see which side you're on, they're not bound to respect you very much, if at all.

Your're going to have to explain to me again just how it is that stopping the siphon leading from the peoples' backs and on into the pockets of the central banksters is going to make matters worse.

Also, in your hurry to run to your foxhole for the purpose of supporting the thieves, you must have missed this:

Monetary Instability caused by debt based
money is a global phenomenon
"Your money's value is determined by a global casino
of unprecedented proportions: $2 trillion are traded per
day in foreign exchange markets, 100 times more than
the trading volume of all the stock markets of the world
combined. Only 2% of these foreign exchange
transactions relate to the "real" economy reflecting
movements of real goods and services in the world, and
98% are purely speculative. This global casino is
triggering the foreign exchange crises which shook
Mexico in 1994-5, Asia in 1997 and Russia in 1998.
These emergencies are the dislocation symptoms of the
old Industrial Age money system."
Future of Money, published in 2001 by Bernard Lietaer,
former Central Banker

Three Key Points:

WHAT we use for money is not nearly as important as HOW that
money is brought into circulation.
We currently have private BANK FIAT – NOT GOVERNMENT
FIAT – money, meaning that the banking system creates our money.
In other words we have private bank credit, or interest bearing loans,
serving as money, and it is why we have increasing levels of national
(or public) debt.

If the government created our money we would have NO PUBLIC
DEBT. However, we MIGHT have lots of inflation if no attention
were paid to the rules and principles of monetary science and the
process of extinguishment. But if this were to be done, we would have
a true, inherently stable “money of exchange.”
_______________________________________

Stop pretending that you don't understand this! We all know you do.

To repeat: Perhaps if everyone got on board with the beginning idea that something must be done, rather than opting to continue being robbed and fighting for the right of others to do it to you, something might be done!!

So, tell us how it is that having congress print the money interest-free is going to disrupt everything but the thieving Central Banksters. You never did explain how doing what they do, minus charging the interest, would be simply devastating, did you? No, you didn't. And this would be a good time to do that.

Also, did you know that when you take a quote from someone's post, and apply it out of context, as you did with mine, it makes you look like a weakling taking cheap shots. I'm not saying that you are a weakling resorting to cheap shots. I'm just saying that that's how it makes you appear.

Now, why don't you start explaining your position?

Oh, and just for record, I don't admire your passion and your rage, as they are nonexistent when it come to applying them in the right direction.

 

Storch

The problem is that you are all mouth and no trousers a sound and fury signifying little, for all the railing, ranting and cut and pastes you have little or nothing to offer in actual answers.

TOO REPEAT - My problem with the right wing libertarian argument about the FED is that they seem to want to take a hammer to the system without having a viable alternative and what’s worse they don’t seem to care that they don’t have a viable alternative it seems like another case of ideological beliefs outweighing rational thought.

 

Running out of ideas, Balbus?

Did you know that when you become angry, you become incapable of making a point? It's true.

I couldn't help but notice that you failed to answer my question. So, let's get to that before you lose yourself and forget . . . again!

How will removing the money-drainage hose stuck in everybody's back be a bad thing. Explain in detail just how that would be disastrous? And try not to repeat yourself this time.

As far as copy and pasting, your part in this discussion is not to characterize the challenge or the challenger, but to refute it if you can. I'll assume you have no desire to do that, and we'll just leave it up to everyone else to figure out the reason for your . . . reluctance to do so.

On the other hand, I'll ask you again what you would prescribe as a remedy to the current theft taking place. Start there, if you don't mind.

 

Look, I have to do up my dishes, so don't make the mistake of thinking I won't be back to address and discuss your answer to my question.