i'm definitely in the minority here...

...but.. i really love college. i love it. i do. i love learning.

in may, i'll have a BA in german language and literature, and then in another three years, assuming i don't screw up or something, i'll have a JD (i just found out i'm in at george washington law, so i'll definitely be going!).

after that, i have every intention to get an LLM - master of laws, in government procurement and environmental law (this is in depth study of how most of the environmental work done through the government is done through contracts and gives a deeper look at this).

and after that, i mean i'll be working, of course, but i really want to learn more. i really want to get a BA in theology. i want to continue with learning spanish. i'd seriously consider pursuring german through a masters level. while i'm in law school, i am going to seriously look into taking a german class every semester at the undergrad school. i'd love to study art and music history seriously.

i can imagine myself as a perpetual student, doing evening and adult programs for the rest of my life! GOD I AM SUCH A DORK! haha

i just think it's so wonderful all the things there are to know out there.

it's funny, i read on here all the people who hate college and i find myself having few things to say... i know it's rough sometimes, especially at first when you're taking every class in the book and not really seeing how they will ever benefit you (and some of them you'll be hard pressed to ever see the benefit in! hehe) but just the opportunity to spend your time applying yourself to learning - and really, there will never be another time like this in your life, a time set aside specifically just to LEARN.

i dunno why i'm posting this really, i guess i just wanted to positive spin on the whole higher ed forum

 

I agree. Sometimes the stress can get to be a bit much, sometimes a bad professor will make you dread going to a certain class, but overall there is nothing I'd rather be doing. My personal interest in is cultural anthropology -- right now looking at indigenous religions, particularly in SouthEast Asia. That may seem like a relatively limited subject, but people have spent lifetimes studying different religions & the ways the religion is affected by & affects other aspects of that culture. Plus, now, you have all the fun tension between those converting to world religions & those who have stayed with or gone back to traditional practices...

I'm in the process of applying to grad schools. My plan is to go on to a PhD, then find a job as a professor somewhere, so that I can just keep doing my own research, which of course will necessarily require learning more & more about different aspects of cultural anthro...

 

I have a big problem with the higher education system in the United States. I feel that it falls far short of what it could be. I attended two very well respected schools and also taught at another and quite frankly - the quality of instruction at the highest levels is lacking. I'm glad you're happy with the education you are attaining for yourself, but I have a big problem with the fact that from K-12 a teacher needs to be a TEACHER, needs to be certified in teaching methods. You would think that at the highest levels of education that there at least would be some requirement for how one should teach. I was hired to teach a senior level college course and I almost didn't take the job for philosophical reasons. I knew the subject matter very well, but had no formal training in how to convey the material. At the end of the course, I felt pretty good about the experience I provided my students - but overall, I still felt that there is a great need to overhaul how the higher education system of america works. There are far too many professors that are more concerned with receiving funding for their own research while employed at a university than actually teaching. In my opinion, the vast majority of collegiate instructors lack passion in helping students learn, which should be their primary concern.

 

dawn_sky - anthropology is another one of the fields i would love to pursue! it's probably actually above art/music history... i foresee myself being the 80 year old lady with 17 BA's instead of 17 cats haha.

and you could very well be right dhs. i guess i've just had a wonderful college experience, and i'm likely biased from that. i also attended the school i am attending in large part because of our extreeeemely close faculty/student ratio and academic reputation. seriously, no class in my major has had more than 12 students, and for the most part the number has been around 7-8 the faculty are so passionate in what they're teaching, and they've all specialized in really different areas (both cultural and historical)...

i guess that's the problem with any "system," like education or the government or what have you. and that's unfortunate. i think there is hope for it out there though, it'll just take people with the right motivations moving into the system to help filter it out

 

i love learning too. my mom had us make lists to give her ideas for christmas. i asked for a chess set and a good dictionary. learning is such an amazing natural high.

 

You're definitely not alone in that opinion, dhs. A relatively recent trend in academia has been to get rid of that unconditional tenure thing, where you bust ass to get tenure then can get away with not really doing much & are guaranteed the position until you either majorly fuck up or decide to retire. A lot of places are moving to require (at least as a contract stipulation for new hires, can't change the rules on the old tenured coots) that you maintain a certain publication level and have good teaching evaluations to keep your tenure. At least that's what I've heard from friends who have recently gotten their PhDs & are now looking for a steady position. My boyfriend really got screwed over by having one of those old-school tenured folks as his advisor for his MA -- the guy offered little to no guidance, didn't even bother to read his master's thesis before signing off on it. Because of this, my boyfriend basically had to backtrack & gain a lot of the skills (particularly writing skills) that he should have already had before coming to a PhD program.

But, like superNova, I've had a really good experience, at least in my major. The class sizes are usually quite a bit larger, as I'm at a large state university, but I've had some really good profs. And, part of it is that I've gotten involved in undergraduate research, so I've developed a closer working relationship with a couple of professors than most undergrads really get to experience -- it really makes the learning experience much more rewarding. It also really outweighs any bad classes I've had.

Anyway, tho, the trend toward expecting profs to really teach is there, it just takes time to get the old tenured bad ones (not that all older ones are bad, but we want to keep the good ones!) out of the way.

 

That's my plan as well. I also wanna consentrate on doing fieldwork and writing ethnographies. There are too many things I wanna do, I don't think I have time for everything... Ahh well.
Anyway... I love studying in university. My professors are just wonderful, their works are so inspiring and all the information and these different ways of seeing things just blow my mind. I love it how university has challenged me to start thinking critically about EVERYTHING. I enjoy learning new things and it feels so great to finally be studying something I've always wanted to study.

 

just a thought but maybe forcing school on people turns them off of their natural desire to learn

 

I also love school, although I'm not in college yet. I'm the type of person to just pick up another language as my easy A classes (which is just what I'm doing with French as an add-on to Spanish). I forsee myself someday with degrees in international relations, public relations, Romance languages, linguistic, history, and political science and doing something with the government or some internationally based company, and then when I have kids, getting a phD in something and teaching.

There's nothing better than learning. I honestly have very little respect for people that don't give it their all in education. Sure, school might not be everyone's forte, but it's the most effective way of bettering yourself in my opinion. It makes me sick when people don't care in high school and either don't want to go to college or resign themselves to a community college. No matter how "stupid" a person thinks they are, all they need to do is try and they can make the grades.

 

but university study is a choice...

 

I also, love to learn, but I personally believe that one can learn anywhere and not necessarily need to obtain a degree. There is nothing wrong with getting a degree of course, and it would be very helpful in securing a job in the future, but a degree doesn't prove anything to me. I know numerous people who I consider to be highly intelligent, and they do not have degrees. I also know people who have simply audited classes therefore have the knowledge of everyone else in the class, but receive no credit for it. Now to me that is loving to learn! On the other hand, I know more people than I'd like to who have degrees and are out in this world who haven't got a clue. It is extremely scary. I actually wrote a paper on the lack of actual education within the higher education system. Though, I'm fairly certain you all are not interested.

I have had some wonderful experiences and some horrible experiences in college. Some professors were simply awful and others were amazingly wonderful. I still think the school of life is worth more than any university can provide. Anyone can memorize and regurgitate facts, that doesn't mean that you actually know what the hell you are talking about.

Not sure how much in the minority you are though super. I know plenty of spoiled brats who love college, I mean who wouldn't when mommy and daddy pay for you to party your ass off for 5 years and you come out making 3 times as much money as everyone else who is out there busting thier ass. But whether you are in a minority or not, good luck to you and all of your dreams, may you attain them all Just don't forget about the real world out there, beyond those library walls, there is so much to learn out there as well.

 

I don't think anyone here is talking about learning as regurgitating facts. Yes, you go thru the memorization & regurgitation in lower level classes, where your goal is to get the basic understanding of the field, which you will then build upon. But, frankly, most of my classes for the last 2 years have required a real understanding of the material & application of the ideas. Memorization doesn't do much for ya there. Maybe hard sciences or business classes are different, but I've learned a hell of a lot more in the past 2 years than I did in the 5 years between when I graduated high school & when I started school here.

As for which is better, that's nothing more than personal opinion. It entirely depends on what you want out of life. For what I want, college is the best option to get there -- I could just wander out into some jungle somewhere & try to learn about the native culture & religion, but it seems much wiser to learn a bit about ethnographic methods, learn some basics of the language, etc. before going...

Wow, that just came out snide as hell. I was actually somewhat agreeing with your post until this point. FYI, mommy & daddy never paid for shit for me. What I couldn't cover with scholarships I took out in loans. No, I'm not out there busting my ass at some non-degree requiring job -- been there done that & thought it was crap. But I don't know when I'm supposed to have time to party my ass off with all this reading I have to do.

That just completely came off as an uncalled for assault on everyone who honestly enjoys the college experience.

 

I love school as well right now. My first two years were extremely boring- I really don't enjoy certain subjects, and being forced to take them definitely was not a positive experience for me. Now I took some time off and am working in my major and I love it!
Oh and I've partied the whole time I've been at school - I've maintained good grades and a job the whole time taking out as much in loans as I can and my parents help me out with the rest. I don't think that makes me a spoiled brat or makes me busting my ass any less than people out there with a job. I mean I hold down an almost full time job and go to school full time...
I'm not trying to sound rude or anything- just defending the position of me and any other folks whose parents help them out...

 

ouch man, that was harsh!

i think you missed a lot of my point cutelildeadbear... i love college because i love learning, not because i just love to party. and vice versa, since it is the actual learning i love, obviously college is not required. that's what this thread was about. you just sound really mean

and when i said i was in the minority i meant on this board - check out the "i hate college" threads that litter this board all the time!

 

Wait, I think you completely misunderstood my post! First of all the regurgitating of facts, is something that happens throughout all education in this country. We are given textbooks and told to memorize and take exams to see how much we can memorize. I can't change the way things are done personally, so this is what we are left with. I was just stating a fact like I've been taught to do.



I wasn't suggesting going out in the wilderness and attempt to grasp what is going on. But at the same time, what you are learning in a classroom setting is different from experiences. I was referring more to what myself and my friends have experienced. You can come to the same conclusions by teaching yourself many things. I mean what is stopping anyone from learning, if they are not in college? Nothing, except one's own desire to learn. I can go to the library and take out any book that a student uses and teach myself. Does that mean that I don't know as much simply because I haven't a degree in that particular subject? No. And that is exactly what I did for 3 years. And everyone told me that it was stupid because even if I did know what others knew, I didn't have a degree, that nifty piece of paper that is supposed to mean the world, to show for it. So, off to my local university I went.



I wasn't trying to put anyone down for attending college, perhaps you read into my post wrong. I myself am pursuing two degrees. There are parts of college that I love, (the learning) and parts that I hate (the whiney spoiled brats who only come here to party). And I was in no way what so ever referring to anyone here about their parents paying their way. I don't know why you thought that was a personal attack. It was somewhat of a joke. I know a lot of people don't get my cynical side, particularly over the internet. Here we have a huge problem (yes I think that it is fair to call it a problem) with students at the University who bring absolutely nothing to the learning experience. Many of them only come here to party simply because this college was ranked a good party school, at some point. I hate that. It greatly angers me that I have to put myself through college and bust my ass and get good grades, not because of some incentive for when I get out, but because the subject actually interests me. It is my passion and what I plan to make my life's work. And there are students here who DO NOT WANT TO BE HERE. I'm not here because my parents told me to pick a college. I didn't even start college until I was 22 and had been on my own for years. I don't want to come to class and have to listen to a professor explain to an adult that they should behave like an adult in the classroom. I'm not paying these people to babysit. I'm not going to daycare.



But all in all, the one thing I have learned from these people is to be thankful and tolerant. I know that in the end I will appreciate it more. It is hard, but I'm getting through it. I would think that people such as yourself, would understand this, being as you enjoy the college experience. I'm sorry you think that I came off as snide, but that isn't the way I meant it at all.



And again I wasn't even putting partying down, if that is your thing. But that is not what college is about. And I don't want your partying taking away from my education as it has here at this university. I was forced to leave my university because there were very few people who took it seriously, and I felt that I was not receiving the education that I should have. It is sad I know. I had to go to a much smaller vocational college so that I could get hands on experience with people who were already in the field and wanted to be there. Adults. I guess you wouldn't understand what I'm talking about unless you came here to witness it yourself. I guess that perhaps I was too old to go back to college, and I don't exactly have the patience to deal with the younger crowd not taking it seriously. But in all honesty, I did not mean to offend anyone here. If anything I agree that learning is wonderful and I plan to do it forever. I just don't need a college or university or a professor to continue learning. I'm very capable of doing it wherever I am and in whatever I'm doing.

 

This was written a few years ago by a good friend of mine when I was struggling with this whole university issue and I went to him for advice. He helped me to realize that it really doesn't matter if I have a degree or if I don't have one, or what society thinks of me. What matters is who we are on the inside. I wholeheartedly believe every word of this essay. If you love to learn, as I do, then that is wonderful, I would never knock that, as a matter of fact I admire that. I was only saying that structured education that we obtain from universities, isn't everything.

The Learning Factories

Education kills. Education kills the realization of potent choice. Sold the notions that modern education is the passport to well being and cauterized respect, our majorities willingly subject themselves to and absurdly pay great amounts of money to the learning factories we have built as our modern day cathedrals of passage. Plainly stated, these institutions of "education" are no more than diploma dispensers built solely upon the principles of profit margins and social stigmata. Very few who attend universities learn anything of value at all. The educational system pumps out human cogs as indistinguishable from one another as links of portent sausage extruded through border town chorizo grinders. Modern education teaches promotes and elevates only consumption. Chorizo on the other hand is much more nourishing and about $80,000 less per serving.
Here's the scenario: Jimmie attends a prestigious university, which costs $25,000 per year. Jimmie has a lot of fun in college, which is possibly of the greatest value in this equation. Jimmie chooses a major, which he found while thumbing through a college course catalog. Jimmie fucks around A LOT and simply crams for exams, which seems to work pretty well. In fact Jimmie is pretty bright and finds that it is not that difficult to do pretty well in school. Jimmies parents have no complaints. Jimmie gets all A's and B's because of the lower standards that colleges admit to setting these days, and after four years of very little toil receives his diploma and a baccalaureate degree in communications, a subject which he knows quite little about. Were he to take his exams now, he would no doubt fail them all, but nevertheless he slaps a Brown University alumni bumper sticker on his new Chevy Suburban which he can easily afford with the job he landed in the accounting department of a major pharmaceutical firm that cares as little about communications as Jimmie does. Jimmie can finally afford to get a few things that he has "needed" like some new downhill skis and season tickets to the Patriots. Life is great for Jimmie. He may even have his student loans paid off in the next ten years if he works extra twenty hours per week. Jimmie meets a great girl who has contributed equally to society, gets married, buys a house that nine Indian families would feel comfortable in, gets a few cars and a minivan for the family, vacations on the outer banks, and puts a few bucks in college funds for the kids, meanwhile consuming and disposing of more resources in one year than his non-western counterparts will see in ten years.


The United States has consumed more in the past one hundred years than the entire subcontinent of India has consumed in the past two thousand years. India, China, and other "non-westernized" nations are SERIOUS about education. In India a student must know his subject matter backward, forward, and in hieroglyphics. Why do you think it is that people from these countries excel at our universities? It's definitely not that they are innately more intelligent people. It's that they are truly interested in
learning what it is that they study. This is of course often the only way out of their countries and into "a better standard of life".....but who's standard? Dedication to learning can mean passage to the West, a world represented in the glossy pages of magazines and on MTV. A world of Corvettes and supermodels, beaches, mansions and "reality" television. When they arrive at our universities they excel because our
educational standards are a joke to them.. Different means to different ends. As they rise in affluence they don't blow their well-earned paychecks on the
dreams they've so long held, but often they pay at great expense for the passage of their families to the golden West. In this way modern education rears
it's ugly head again, for as these people are not indeed as wasteful as we are, their children will be. And the cycle continues. But of course the passage to "modernity" is not without its cost. A life spent working long hours. A life measuring quantity, leaving behind the quality as they board the boats and planes to excess.
True there is unimaginable poverty in many countries which indeed many wish to protect their children from, but there are also qualities of grace, respect, and understanding which we in the west will never fathom. There is value in living in a land where it is understood what it means to have enough. Indeed homeless people in our country enjoy a better standard of living than the poor in many other countries, but what is the trade off? Is assimilation into the collective of consumption better than a simple entropic existence?
Education has become the calling card of over consumption. An exponential catch 22 of vacuity. The people of the western world are the progenitors of
what is to come. The wanting our children to have more than we had is for the most part an antiquated notion and education as the means to a better life is a blind man's banquet. If more now means nothing later then perhaps we had better re-define the import of what it is that we are teaching to the deaf ears of our children.

 

it's ok, i know things come across wrong on internet message boards sometimes

i think that my love of college and learning, though, in no way mitigates the possibility of learning through experience and outside a university setting. that was totally not the intention of my saying 'i love college,' you see.

from my experiences in the university system, however, i do not perceive the potential flaws (such as the ability to screw around, pay a lot of tuition money, and then get a better job than someone who didn't go to college) to outweigh the good, and those possible problems just aren't what come to my mind when i think of college education.

i'm a really optimistic person i guess hehe

 

In that case, I'm sorry. I reacted as I did because, well, I have known too many people who actually think that college is a waste of time & blah blah blah. I actually had one person that, at the time, I referred to as a friend tell me that I should drop out of college so that I could actually do something worthwhile with my life. Ex-fucking-scuse me, whose life is it anyway? So, yeah, things come across wrong online all the time & I'm probably a bit jumpier than most... Sorry!

The big difference in my eyes is that, in college (well upper-level classes, I agree that lower-level classes are crap), in seminar style classes, I have learned a hell of a lot more from the discussions than I ever did from doing the readings. Part of this is because the professor is generally well versed in whatever topic s/he is teaching a small seminar on (as opposed to someone teaching a generic lecture course, so that they don't need a really in-depth understanding of the topic). Therefore, they can clarify, correct, or expand upon the texts.

The other part of this is simply, if you have a class of 6-10 students with a good prof, you will get 6-10 different perspectives on the material. Yeah, even a good prof will have trouble getting some students to talk, but hearing several different perspectives on the material has majorly increased my understanding to topics. It's really cool when the students all have different interests within the general field, because each person will pick out something that others had just skimmed over as unimportant, but discussing it shows how it is important...

I tend to do a pretty good job of avoiding those people. Then again, I mostly hang around with grad students... The few other undergrads who hang out with us are serious students like me, not the major partiers.

Frankly, I feel that partying is totally cool, we all go thru that phase -- take some fucking time off to get it out of you system before going to school!!! That's what I did. Not only did I not drag anyone else down, I spared my gpa the damage of a party-semester!

Luckily, in most of the classes I've had, that has not been an issue. In lower-level classes, I generally had lecture classes, so those people either kept up, pestered the TA in office hours, or flunked. The profs in my major department would not think of holding up a seminar to explain the material to someone who was too lazy to do the work on time. That's what high school is for, not college.

 

I'm glad that you are optimistic and I really do hope no one has to go through what a lot of people here at my university went through (I wasn't the only one with an unpleasant experience, there have been thousands). I used to feel that way, until it happened to me. I never thought of any of the problems either, and when I used to think of college I never thought about the slackers and the cheaters and those who only use it to gain some sort of edge over everyone else in society. But I suppose that happens everywhere.

I still don't think you are in the minority though. I think that it is natural to love to learn. Most animals, even though we can't exactly measure it go out and explore. Sometimes I just wish I could be a lion in the jungle and learn from experience and survive you know what I mean? Rather than deal with the cut throat humans clawing their way to the top at everyone else's expense. I think the problem is that even though it is natural for us to want to learn this society has gotten pretty lazy and selfish. We want to learn what we want to learn on our terms. Perhaps I just chose the wrong college to begin with. I'm quite happy where I am now.

oh yeah but about those other threads about people who hate college, those are the people I wish would leave!

 

Which is precisely why a BA in my field is all but worthless these days, unless you want one of those robot-at-a-desk jobs in a completely different field.