I feel like we've been conditioned to be hedonistic.

Yah, we don't really enjoy the things we have in front of us. We want more, and we feel we won't be truly happy till we have more than anyone else.

I guess what I'm arguing against is a hedonism of the senses and instant gratification. My belief is that true liberation and happiness comes from more delayed forms of gratification, like those from building healthy human relationships. I think we can get more joy as a species by connecting with one another socially than just making life completely about self gratification and continuing this cycle of mindless consumption till we exhaust all the natural resources till we end up killing each other off for whatever remaining pieces are left over.

So, maybe I am a hedonist in that sense, just not in the sense that most people understand the term.

 

Not everyone can be or wants to be gandhi, newton, or picasso. We all have the same impulse and that is to have our good.

I agree with you that we are programed to think that good is proprietary, that you can be without it, or that we are in competition for it.

The salient prospect is what can you do for those who have lost their inspiration and settle on lives of "quiet desperation"?

What noble thing do you think distinguishes viruses as flight is the majesty of birds? Or, are viruses unworthy being?

I think we have many conditioned and unexamined responses to the world that rob us of motive.

 

I know we all can't be visionaries or saints, but we all can take inspiration from people like that and heed their advice. I look at the way third world countries function where social contracts have withered away and all that's left is the dog eat dog mentality in the most overt form. The theft, exploitation, and degradation in that type of environment isn't right (prostitution, drug pushing, everyone trying to get the upper hand over everyone else). I think we should strive past that.

What we can do for those who have lost inspiration in life is to inspire them by following the kind of path that Christ took. We need to be virtuous and just, even if there's no social benefit, even if we get killed for it, and hope people get inspired by our actions and the love it takes to live like that.

Well a virus just does what it does. Its going to just gobble up all the resources in its host until it dies, and its inevitable unless it chance mutates and takes up some new property that doesn't kill the host. They don't really know what's going on. However, we do know what's going on or at least have the ability to know the larger picture. The fact we could create a virtual paradise on earth with our intellectual capacity just seems like a total waste when were taking the other path of domination, war, and extinction.

We may have unexamined motive and responses. That's really what a lot of propaganda takes advantage of. However, we really do have the ability to attain self discovery and find out what makes us petty and what betters us as people. A lot of times, we just don't want to face ourselves. Its uncomfortable to us, and that's why we avoid it. However, we could attain much more joy and fulfillment in life by going through with what comes hardest to us, at least where self awareness is concerned anyway.

 

Okay, so you're not the typical christian fundamentalist. You and I may be able to agree on some stuff. :cheers2:

Franklin didn't just do French whores. He also fucked French high society ladies, who he said were much more adventurous after they had passed menopause, and therefore no longer had to worry about unwanted pregnancy.

I usually do all of those, except #1 (sometimes).

He also wrote fart jokes, and did not believe that they diminished his credibility as a scientist. He did not see any relationship between the two subjects.

Where are these people in our generation? It seems like everyone who wants to be taken seriously feels that they have to have their heads up their asses at all times.

You can't go to Philadelphia without being saturated with Franklin shit.

I don't think most of them have it as good as we think. They are under a lot of pressure, and don't have a lot of time to enjoy what they have. I wouldn't want to trade places with any of them.

Maybe they've got it right. Maybe we should be more like them. The animals are more Zen than us. They take life as it comes to them, and make the most of it, every day.

That's definitely true in America, at least outside of New Orleans, where everything is different. I rarely see anyone truly celebrate anything.

Also not in the European sense.

Yeah, I have posted before that I have a problem with the idea that hedonism has to be divorced from any intelligent understanding of risks and cause/effect relationships. When you dump traditional morals completely, it becomes even more important that you give careful consideration to the risks and potential consequences of your actions.

You don't have to travel that far. Just talk to any stripper or typical prostitute.

 

That's right, he did make fart jokes.

I don't think were meant to be like the animals though even if it is somehow more zen like and in tune with the environment. All this neuroticism and self awareness is the universe's search for something, probably seeking another way of experiencing itself.

I totally disagree with prostitution as an institution though. I think its exploitative. The same goes for these blood feuds and genocides in African and eastern European countries.

 

How is this different from other animals?

To dis agree with reality is futile. Prostitution is just another form of energy exchange and contention is simply contentious.

 

I don't think its right to commoditize love. We put a price tag on everything in nature as humans, and were raping the planet with it. Were gonna destroy ourselves along with the planet if we keep going this way. This is an ability other animals don't possess in the pricing and trading of all things natural. Its ok to disagree with reality if you can change it, and I believe we can change the course were on.

Were different from animals in that we can conceptualize our predicament and make plans. I think this difference means something too and that we shouldn't let it go to waste, because its potentially a really powerful gift for universal self discovery.

 

Now what would he say about China, where sexual freedom does not seem to be..well, so prominent...

 

and yet i wonder, which had the greater enjoyment out of what living they did have? those who were able to put on a big show of impressing others with their inconsideratly aquired means, or those who were hated by them, for refusing to deceive themselves.