The returning stress of Graduate School in Mathematics

You probably know me from the Psychedelics and Other Drugs forum here, but I have a special thread that I want to make and it has to do with Graduate School.

I am currently in my second semester of grad school for a Master's in Mathematics at a research intensive university (U-Del). I also am plagued by treatment resistant Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder and extreme neuroticism (neuroticism isn't a disorder but it is worth mentioning...). I attended the program last Fall and had to leave near the end of the semester because I essentially went insane. I won't go into details, but I almost ended up arrested and involuntarily committed for full-blown psychosis. And it was all started from the stress of the Grad School environment.

Now that I am 'trying' it again, I am trying to be cautious not to fall into the traps that I fell into last time. However, it is easier said than done. Compared with last Fall, my mental disorders are mainly under control. Today was my first day back, and I can already FEEL some of the 'old' ways of thinking coming back to me, which is bad.

Graduate school is an incredibly tense, hierarchical, competitive place. Everyone is extremely intense and goal-driven. They have their eye on the prize: The Tenured Professorship. And to make things worse for me, I am not even going for that. I 'lowered' my expectations to Master's Degree. This adds even more pressure because I am looked down upon by most of my fellow students and faculty and I am 'forbidden' from becoming a member of the inner circle of the culture there. It is very unnerving.

The school work is also insanely difficult and I am taking a 'reduced course' load this time to keep myself from going crazy (we hope). However, I can already tell that I will be stressed out.

It is just so hard being surrounded by people who value you only for your 'rank' and nothing else. They don't talk about anything else or have other interests. Opening up about your 'feelings' is probably the biggest 'No-No' you could imagine, especially in the Math-Field. So I am left pretty much on my own, isolated amongst these intense people. Even though I KNOW that a person's worth (if there is even such a thing at all) is not based solely on their rank, it still is driven into my head the entire time I am there. You are simply a failure if you don't get a Ph.D. and then get tenure. It is very stressful.

So what REALISTIC things can I do to survive this program and get the degree I desire without aborting it from going into some sort of psychotic break? Keep in mind that I have a serious mental illness and saying things like "Just don't let it get to you" is not helpful, as I already am trying to implement such techniques, but they don't really help me. Thanks.

 

Come on. Someone has to be brave enough to come up with some suggestions for me. I don't bite (that bad...).

 

You must try not to let the worldview of those around you weigh down as heavily on you as it does on them. I know this is difficult because we are social beings, and this means you must distance yourself socially. You're in a tough spot, graduate school for mathematics amongst people obsessed with "success". Maintain your own personal inner world and continue doing what you are there to do, for the reasons you have within you. Listen and watch those around you, but resist internalizing their ideas. Exercise regularly, sleep well, and engage your mind in stimulation outside the school context. Engage your right hemisphere. Take walks in nature . . . sit sometimes and do nothing for a while, just nothing.

Remember that a masters in math is useless if you lose your mind getting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoTmNU_5A0"]Alan Watts - "Music and Life" - YouTube

 

Yeah. Good points. I basically DO get myself away from that 'toxic environment' of the math department once I am done my 'duties.' I just wish I had some friends from other parts of the University that aren't so "Gung-Ho" about school and want to, like me, lived a balanced life.

I just don't know where to meet them since University clubs cater only to undergraduates, and the few inter-mural sports in the Grad Program group Mathematics with Physics and Engineering, so they only see each other. Obviously, those subject areas fall prey to the same type of insanity as Mathematics. They should offer interdisciplinary activities with people who are in grad school for things like Art, Literature, and History. At least that is what I would like.

It is difficult being surrounded by the same type of 'drone' people all day. You can tell they are all suffering deep down, but they are so egotistical that they refuse to show the slightest hint of emotion, because it would 'discredit' them as 'strong' people. Crazy.

 

this is a difficult position to be in. If you manage things well though, you might be ok

probably the best thing would be to be in a different environment, one that was supportive. also with a program designed to accommodate students with disabilities like yours. I don't know if such progams exist though.

still, there might be a better place for you than where you are at

sometimes if you withdraw from a program early, you can do so with minimum penalties. if you can already feel the bad stuff coming on, it might be good to get out now and start your studies again later once you have a good plan for how to handle the situation

an academic advisor a psychiatrist or therapist might be able to help.

the best thing is to have a plan that keeps you from getting sick in the first place

the second best thing is a plan to manage the situation if you do get sick

maybe you can map out the procedures and policies for withdrawal or medical leave of absence ahead of time, so you know what to do if something happens. it might also help if someone is regularly evaluating you and can tell if you are getting sick and can help out

a support group might be good. that would be great if there was a depression/ bipolar support group at your school

 

The thing is, though, that I already took a medical leave last Fall and Spring from the same place! So this is like my "last chance". The trouble in finding a therapist is that the school councelors refuse to treat me because I have such a "severe" diagnosis. I find that ridiculous personally. So they just refer me to community therapists, but they aren't covered by my insurance! My insurance only works in Pennsylvania and I am too far from there to meet weekly with a therapist. However, I still meet monthly with my psychiatrist from Pennsylvania. It is rather complex.

 

this doesn't sound good. it's like the councilors who should be helping you out are just passing the buck

a situation where you are just on your own if something goes wrong doesn't sound good

do you have an academic adviser who can give you some input? last chance may just mean that you would have to reapply if you withdrew, or start over at another school

could your psychiatrist give you some advice on how to handle this? treatment resistant, does that mean that you are on meds now, but they are not working well?

maybe a school in pennsylvania would be better. could see a therapist and be closer to the psychiatrist

hopefully there might be a school where people are nicer too

 

There isn't a real system of academic advisement in Graduate School, especially in the fields like Mathematics. You are just expected to show no emotion and to never admit feeling overwhelmed. It is similar to the military.

I can't withdraw though. My future hinges on completing this degree. I will do everything in my power to continue this program and to eventually graduate. That is simply my decision.

My psychiatrist gives me plenty of advice, but like I mentioned in the original post, I can hear all of the good advice in the world, but implementing it is the problem. I just can't seem to take any of it to a deeper level.

Yes. I take medicine. I take Zyprexa (antipsychotic), Effexor (antidepressant), Vyvanse (stimulant- paradoxically helps depression and anxiety), and Klonopin (anxiety pill- I rarely take it any more). They work wonderfully until something insurmountably difficult presents itself. I just can't deal with any pressures in the world.

There are no grad schools for Mathematics in the area covered by my Insurance. It isn't the whole state of Pennsylvania, just the South Central part, which has no big cities or Universities.

And, even if there were another school, from what I have heard from a few friends who left Math Grad School, their schools were EXACTLY like mine. It is just the culture of Mathematics Academia.

 

you probably have a bunch of other options than to continue with this program this semester. it sounds like this is what you will do though

as you get into the semester, you probably get to a point where you can't get any of your money back if you withdraw, which would add to the pressure. beyond that, if you need to be hospitalized, would that be covered by your insurance? if not, that might discourage you from going, which would be a problem

what's your insurance like, is there any way you could get different insurance? is it possible that you would be eligible for medicaid?

is it possible to get financial aid that would allow you to either get new insurance or pay out of pocket for visits to a therapist?

maybe you could go back to the school councilors and explain that you can't pay for private counseling. maybe they could give you some help with finding insurance. I don't know if they are willing to be helpful though

if there isn't a support group for students with depression/bipolar, maybe you could start one. there may be a group for students with disabilities, maybe they could help you out

getting some positive interaction sounds like it would be helpful. also if there could be someone who could check on how you are doing and help you out if you need help

you might be able to find some support on-line if there is something bipolar related on-line. I think that www.suicideforum.com has a bipolar forum

I know I say this a lot, but meditation, regular gentle aerobic exercise, and a good diet could help you keep your stress in check

if you take a meditation class or join a meditation group, you might get some support there

there is an office of disability services at your school. just looking at their web page, I'm not so sure that they give a shit. hope I'm wrong, but it kinda looks like the office of pro-forma fullfilment of legal obligations

 

It is hard to try to describe things but it boils down to the simple phrase: I CAN'T GIVE UP.

That is what I keep in mind all day long. I know that my future will be significantly better if I can manage to get that Master's degree. I have already been hinted at getting a job offer to teach (starting at $60K per year) at the very university I am at right now. I can't let go of something like that. I love to teach and I don't want to have to do manual labor for a job. My father practically kills himself as a manual laborer because he never went to college and I just know that I NEVER want that for myself.

I just feel incredibly isolated. I don't know where to turn for emotional support other than my parents and my psychiatrist. But I only see my parents once a week, and my doctor once a month. I just wish that my fellow students were 'normal' and wanted to go out for dinner and a drink (or whatever, that is just an example, I don't even like drinking haha) after school/work. But, no, they stay huddled in their offices all day and night.

That is just how mathematics is. It is cold and unemotional.

 

there's probably some community out there, you just have to find it

failing or withdrawing this semester would not be the end of the world. pushing yourself till you break would be much more serious, I think

 

Luckily, things haven't gotten any WORSE since I originally posted this. They are still bad, but I don't feel as though it is increasing in bad-ness. It really all hinges on, like you said, finding a 'community' of normal people.

I'll have to really look into organizations on campus or something. Thanks for all of your input.

 

I think I remember reading a post where you mentioned taking suboxone... plus it is in your sig. Do you still take it? if yes, then how often?

side note: West Chester University has a math program... not as prestigious as UD's but its alright from what I hear. UD is attempting to become an Ivy league school in the next 10 or so years (not happening). So their graduate programs have increased in difficutly. I was debating grad school there and learned this in an interview.

good luck with everything.

 

It reminds me of my career in electrical work, from which I retired. What made it stressful wasn't the work, as much as the other electricians. They are a really competitive bunch, knowing just enough to have some "special knowledge", for which they get paid well (relatively speaking), but not knowing enough to really separate themselves from "the pack", so they always have to be on guard, and strutting like peacocks lest someone else seem to be one-up on them, and more desirable as an employee.

I was very comfortable in a mathematics setting when I was in high school and college, but didn't go for higher learning. I sometimes regret that, because I'm a natural when it comes to math. But now, having heard from you, about the competitive environment, I think I'm okay with having not gone there.

I don't think failing is always a failure. Sometimes failing is just a step towards a more enduring success. The process of succeeding in your chosen area may just take a toll that wasn't worth the cost.

It's like the political process. Some enter politics because they have a sincere desire to effect a positive change. But often, the process corrupts them, and they end up as crooked as the rest.

Participating in a system that seems to create unwanted changes in one's personality, you may just end up becoming someone else, and lose track of who you once were.

Maybe there's another place, and more healthy, where your skills and interests can fit. Sacrificing your health for a goal that takes such a toll, based on the intensity, it seems a high price to pay, for what? In the end, you may get lost in the shuffle.

 

I just thought I would come back to update things a bit.

I am still trucking along in graduate school. I have 'survived' mid-term exams and quite a few Problem Sets. I feel like I have made it over a big 'hump' and since, like I said, I am 100% DEDICATED to getting that degree, I feel as though I can keep trucking along for a bit longer.

I have become close to one of my professors as well, which has helped. He has kind of taken me under his wing to help me succeed despite my challenges.

 

Good to know that you have an advocate. That's important.

 

Yes. It feels like a completely different 'game' knowing that I am not out there alone, 'fighting the world.' In addition to just having moral support from this professor, he has given me some concrete study hints that have actually helped me a lot.

I had told him that I was on Zyprexa (the antipsychotic I take) and he must have looked it up or something because when I next saw him he gave me different tips to help with the lack of motivation, the inability to focus, and the sedation. So, I feel a lot more comfortable about the whole Grad School situation compared to when I first wrote this topic. And, now that I have made it past where I had quit LAST time, I am pretty happy.

 

Well, reading this reminded me of something from my high school experience:
It reminded me of a classmate of mine. She was the best in our class(me sometimes ending up as second), oftentimes getting perfect grades. However, in her junior year, she got something very similar to what you are describing and her academic performance got really low. Somewhere in the lower half of the class(we were a good class, though). Unfortunately, she couldn't get into college because of her grades. I felt really bad for her. She described a similar situation to yours, just couldn't concentrate/comprehend.
Anyway, I wrote this just to tell you that, at least you got your bachelor's for which, given the circumstances, I congratulate you.
As for the situation itself, I would normally recommend marijuana, usually opens up the mind, but, hey, I don't know what effects it could have...
However, I'm glad to hear, you are doing better. From my own experience I know that it's better to have professors that are friendly to you, because some of them are just cold-hearted bastards.