The Origins of the Christian Heaven and Hell

As far as I am aware, the tree of knowledge and the tree of life have the same root system. : D

Death is its very own fruitless pursuit. Life has no part of it, though it may impart more of itself through it (indirectly though (and there is my concern for humanity.))

 

It's fine if you want to read the whole Bible, in fact I recommend it but I couldn't help but notice, no matter how many chapters you read, you didn't answer the questions.

The questions being:
For what reason did God put man on the Earth for? What would happen if no one ate of the tree? Is there any talk about a "messianic age" before the appearance of Satan and the sin of Adam and Eve? When did God create Hell?

 

I would point out that no, christ teaching is not that man is sinful but that he sins, or misses the sign, and that he can, sin no more.

 

You believe without doubt that you are born and you die. You do not believe gods command of eternal life. Yo do not believe you were created in god's image and likeness. Simple.

 

Open your eyes, people are born, people die.

 

Open your mind to the teaching of christ. If you believe and do not doubt, you can cause a mountain to pick itself up and throw itself into the sea. It is not an idle statement and what I am saying about death is consistent with christ teaching.

By our words we are justified, meaning our words dictate the measure of our experience. Not insincere words but those from the abundance of our heart, vibrationally consistent through and through. You die because you insist you must, that you are bound to flesh, yet gods command is eternal life.

 

Not even close, yes one day Death will be done away with but it won't be because of our belief one way or another.

As for birth, It is the only way Humans come into this world, other than Adam and Eve and no amount of "wishing" on your part will ever change that.

So, it is you that needs to open your mind to the truth and stop believing the lie.

Vibrationally consistent?

In the Bible who is it that originally said you shall not surely die? And people have died ever since and are still dieing as we speak, no matter how they thought about death.

The simple truth is that people are born and die and will continue to do until God changes it and that fact will not change no matter what you do, say, wish or believe.

 

You asked a question and I gave you an answer as I am taught by the holy spirit. If you hopefully wish to rise someday from your "common grave of mankind", understand that no one ascends who has not first descended. If you are not created by god in his own image and likeness, you may not enter.
No room for swine or people made of meat.

But regardless you will seek him and die in your sin If you do not believe his teaching. You are child of god. It is not up to you to decide what your inheritance is but you may accept or attempt to decline. To discover your true nature is a required curriculum and only the time you choose to take it is optional to a point, that being the end of time when there is no more time for you to make amends.

So you insist and so you die, to lie in wait, no wait, you can't even lie and wait because you are conscious of nothing. Like a man who is given ten talents and he promptly buries them in the ground to be unearthed eons later and guess what still ten talents, no more, only they have begun to become corrupted by rust from being buried, out of sight out of mind, out of the circle of life.

Absolutely, out the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Words are emotive vibration and every word we speak has associated with it a vibrational signature or "experiential conjugation". That is why jesus is able to say, "I will, be clean", and have his words be immediately effective because they are vibrationally consistent through and through. As I said the difference between jesus and you and I is that he had nothing but love for his father and brothers. No interior ambivalence or debate.

How could you possibly know otherwise your conviction is so great but if the light in you be darkness, then how great the darkness. God's will is done no matter what you believe about life, he is not mocked and gods command is eternal life.

As far as who says what first, I told you there are two entirely different creation stories they are not complimentary. One is the story of the world as god created, very good, and the other is a story man tells about himself to explain the humility of finding oneself in a perishable body. You were not created to die but to create the good and holy as is your potential being created in the likeness and image of god.

Further, there are many kinds of "death". You may become dispirited and actually feel the joy depart from you and such is the result of believing in a cloth made of disparate qualities, i.e., "good and evil". That is an abomination to god. God did not create your perishable body, you made it through your capacity to fashion temporary conditions for yourself. God did not create the perishable but the eternal.

God must be changing average lifespan huh. You watch, before long, flesh will be produced in factories.


You are divine in creation.

I ask you WHO IS IT THAT ACCUSES THE CHILDREN OF GOD?

 

I finally have the time to answer these questions and as such I'll do my best.

For what reason did Adonai put man on the Earth?

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
You may not agree with me but I think that this is Adonai's answer as to why he initially put man on the earth.

Psalm 8:6 "Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; Thou hast put all things under his feet"

Psalm 115: 16 "The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to man."

What would have happened if no one had ate from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23. Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Although B'reishit (Genesis) doesn't specifiy what would have happened one possible conclusion that we can draw from this verse is that man would have never learned how to distinguish right from wrong and as such would have never been able to succesfully mediate Adonai's creation as He meant us to.

Is there any talk about a "messianic age" before the appearance of Satan and the sin of Adam and Eve?

Isaiah 2:4 "And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war."
Thats just one example of talk of the Messianic age in the Tanakh but I know that you asked about mention before the appearance of your Satan and the "sin" of Adam and Eve. In answer to that I'll simply put that God didn't originally intend for a messianic age. He created man as a part of His world in the hopes that they would be good. When man failed He destroyed them and it wasn't until the giving of the Covenant to my ancestors at Mount Sinai that the ideas of a Messiah or a Messianic age came into being. At least not as a more well known and documented idea. I hope that this answer will be sufficent to you and what you are looking for.

When did God create Hell?

Once again I will state what I stated before that the concept of Hell is not an original concept and did not come into play as a mainstream concept until the writing of the King James version of the bible where the word Sheol was translated as the word Hell. The creation of Hell happened in 1611 A.D.

 

Actually all your answers are pretty good and I mostly agree with them.

As for; for what reason did God put man on the Earth?
I would also add, to be fruitful and multiply, thus fulling the Earth with humanity.

What would have happened if no one had ate from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
I believe that everyone including Adam and Eve would have lived for ever, since only the eating of the fruit was said to cause death.

Also I do not agree with the thinking that man had to eat of the fruit to know good and bad, since Adam and Eve already knew that eating of the tree was bad. So, I believe that the knowing good and bad that is spoken of was the deciding for themselves what was good and bad. Such as deciding that God was wrong when he told them it was bad to eat of the tree and deciding that the it was was good to eat of the tree.

Is there any talk about a "messianic age" before the appearance of Satan and the sin of Adam and Eve?
Again you are correct, before the sin of Adam and Eve there was no need for a messiah. But I believe the first mention was not Isaiah but Genesis at Genesis 3:14-15 God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is what you will eat all the days of your life. 15 And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.

As for, When did God create Hell?
What can I say, you pretty much hit that one on the head. Although I would say the pagan concept of "Hell" began creeping in, as did many pagan concepts, after the death of John.

 

Everyone is intitled to their personal beliefs mine come from the study of Judaism more so than that of Christianity.

As to the part where you say you believe man would have lived forever I disagree simply because of this passage in B'reishit

Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23. Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

When G-D said the part "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" that to me sounds as though He never intended man to be immortal as He is. Perhaps you have a different interpretation, and if so I would love to hear it.

I also don't think that the Genesis story actually happened my friend. I take it to be a metaphor about human existance and "emotional/ spiritual evolution. Not that I am trying to discredit it in any way. I think it is a great story and I find there is much truth in it's words.

 

Then why did the tree of life even exist? Why did God put it in a place where Adam could "forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever"? Was the tree of life said to be forbidden to Adam and Eve before they ate of the forbidden tree? To me the Scripture you cite makes it sound like Adam and Eve had the opportunity to "live for ever" if they had not eaten from the forbidden tree, rather than the other way around.

Also, if the Genesis story never actually happened, then do you think Jesus Christ came so he could fulfill a "metaphor", a myth?

 

A metaphor or a myth is a symbol for something else, not the thing itself. Just because it is a myth or a metaphor does not mean what the myth represents is not true. Just means the truth is metaphorically represented.

 

Looking into Old or New Testaments for the roots of beliefs is an endlessly self recurring mistake.

The roots of Middle Eastern religions are in Manichaeasm and Zoroastrianism. Each was a further development and refutement of Eastern death religions.

The death religions of the East worshipped bulls. Bulls then were identified with death, which was then refuted by the new crop of religions and replaced with an afterlife. The bull headed Death then became a devil.

The Middle Eastern crop of religions were all formed through the interaction of many peoples through their travelling the Silk Road. This was the route for the old spiritual travelers.

 

The roots of our myths are found in experiential constructs, as you say, traveling the silk road. Myths represent interior landscapes constructed to represent sensation that is not visible.

 

I don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah as I have stated before. I acknowledge that he was a good man, a good Jew, and possibly a prophet. That is as far as my interest in him and his story goes. Thousands of people throughout Jewish history, and throughout modern day history have claimed to be messiahs. Just because they do doesn't make it so. As a jew I don't need a messiah to redeem me from my sins because God is the one who allows both "sin" and "goodness" in this world. As long as I strive to live according to His commandments to the best of my ability that is all that matters. If there is an afterlife I personally could care less. My place in His creation is not to worry about accepting Jesus so that I might be saved from Hell and find the "pearly gates and golden streets" of Heaven. My place in this world is to do my best to bring "goodness" and beauty into it. To me and those who are my brothers and sisters there is no original sin because that is not what the Torah teaches. No original sin no need for redemption from that sin. As Jews we are to trust that God will put us where He wants us when we die.

From the perspective of not neccesarily being a religious Jew I've already stated my more personal ideas that I have came up with in the years of my study.

 

Several million years ago,there were no humans.Thus -no language,no myths,no metaphors,no civilization ,no saviours, and consequently,no heaven or hell. I am assuming these concepts are of human construct and have been made whole by those humans that came before us. Why would and how could there be a heaven or hell without humans?

 

Typical

 

I didn't ask if you believe in Jesus. If you wish answer, why did the Torah foretell the coming of another Messiah that is to be greater than Moses? For what purpose?

Also you didn't answer my questions about the tree of life.

As for no redemption from sin, have you read the Law covenant lately?

 

Well, heaven is the abode of God and so even without humans, heaven would still exist.