A question?

Did this surface because he will be on dancing with the stars??... Got to hand it to ABC for breaking the gender ice, once again.

hidden pun..

 

I'd feel like an alien on this planet even if nobody tried to make me feel like one. Inside I've never seen myself as being anything other than just an ordinary woman, but then I know my body is not that of an ordinary woman's. And I've never been able to live a normal life due to that. So it's very hard for me to not feel isolated from other people, and like I'm weird because of that fact.

The fact that a lot of people are ignorant about my condition and would treat me like a sub-human, only adds to the pain I feel over the situation. It's not the only cause of it.

@Orison: Is Cher's son on Dancing With The Stars? That certainly would explain all the sudden interest.

 

it must be very difficult for you.i can't say i completely understand,because only you can understand the most,cos only you feel how you feel about things.but i understand what you are saying though.but there are things you can change.for a start you can not allow anything to isolate you.you and only you alone can make your life the bestest happiest life it can be, just with total acceptance of what you can't change and changing everything you can.secondly stoppin' callin' yourself weird would be a great move in the right direction.you've been probably tellin' yourself that for so long you believe it.ya need ta change that tape in your head.because thats not lovin' yourself properly.and you hit the nail right on the head yourself when you said that thats what people that don't help ya any are.just ignorant.you need ta take their power away.like you said,your hurtin' enough already an they just add to it.don't let them!because how you feel about yourself dose not and should not never !depend upon other peoples ignorant opinions.sub-humans is a good description.you have loadsa really positive stuff to be happy in.you are very intelligent.especially emotionally and you sure as hell do not have an invisible soul. ha! ha!your soul shines.and non a them are atributes any sub-human ignorant behaving people possess.people can't help being ignorant,but people who choose ta stay ignorant,are just the biggest kinda idiots.anyway,ya can't change them,but you really can be the happiest person you can be. :sunny:

 

yes..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS8EtnJRrq4"]Chaz Bono Under Fire for 'Dancing With the Stars' Season 13 Selection - YouTube

listen to some these comments from Activists boycotting the show...
"Its going to confuse the children"

Seriously, I have no hope for many human beings on this planet.

 

Scratcho, thanks for starting this thread. I was actually going to start a similiar thread because, as open-minded as I try to be, I don't really understand the concept behind being transgendered.

Thanks to Invisible Soul's eloquent explanation, I have a better understanding.

But even still, I don't quite follow how brain chemistry can determine gender. Is there a physical basis to this - such as, a man born in a woman's body produces as much testosterone as man born in a man's body?

Or are you coming more from a psychological standpoint?

Really, in that case, gender shouldn't be something you can define at all because it would really just be shades of grey. For example, I have female genitals. My body looks like a woman, there is really no mistaking it. My mind works like a woman, on occassion. Most of the time, my mind works more like a man. I'm not very emotional and I don't really have time for emotional messiness in my life, I'm logical to a fault, I don't like chit chat, I would rather hang out with the guys then hang out with the girls gossiping, I enjoy looking at boobs, ...just a few examples.

Whats the difference between me, a woman in a woman's body who thinks more like a man, and a man born into a woman's body?

On the other end of the spectrum, whats the difference between a guy thats in touch with his feminine side and a guy that feels like a woman trapped in a man's body?

Do men trapped in a woman's body physically feel like they have a woman's body even when they don't?

Sorry if that sounds ignorant but I genuinely am curious and would like to gain a better understanding.

 

As I mentioned before, it's an indisputable medical fact that males have a different brain setup to females. Your brain sex is something you are born with equally as much as you're born with your outer sexual organs. Just because your brain can't be seen, doesn't make it any less a vital organ of the body. If someone's gender at birth can be assigned purely on the basis of genitalia alone, how is that any less frivilous a concept than assigning gender just on brain sex? The fact is, it's not. Just because we've all been indoctrinated from a very young age to believe that there is only one way that someone's gender can be judged, doesn't mean it actually is the only way.

As for saying "physical basis", you're dismissing the brain as a physical organ, which is foolish. Just because it can't be seen, doesn't mean it's not a physical organ. But yes, contrary to what most people believe is the case, (that only two chromosomal setups exist: XX=female, and XY=male) there are many different chromosomal setups. XXY, XYX, XO, XXX, and YYX are just some of the different chromosmal setups someone can have other than XY/XX. So it's a concrete fact that a great many people assigned a gender of male/female purely based on their genitals, actually have a chromosomal setup that isn't the standard XX/XY. Just because the medical profession has attempted for many years to hide these facts away just to placate a narrow minded society who are happy believing the illusion that gender is black and white, doesn't mean they are any less facts.

Okay, first of all, you are not a man, and do not identify as one. Therefore, you cannot really say that you "think like a man", because you're not a man, so how could you possibly really know how they think? I was (like many intersex people) brought up as the wrong gender. something which I continuously rejected at a young age, and never saw myself as anything other than female. Yet when I was growing up, I enjoyed activities that have always been traditionally looked upon as being "for boys". Such as playing with cars, video games, and watching boxing on tv. (although I loathed participating in physical sports, though that was definitely at least partly because it was trying to reinforce the idea that I was "a boy", and therefore I detested it and got out of doing it whenever I could)

However, I never once thought that enjoying those things made me "male", or "a man". I always just saw myself as being a tomboy. Totally female, I just enjoyed doing those things. When you're a child, you are brought into a world where everything is split up gender wise. Blue for boys, pink for girls. Girls can have long hair, but boys can't. Boys play with cars, girls play with dolls. Despite me being brought into this same world that most other kids in our society are brought up in, and that I enjoyed things that are considered "boys activities", and that I was told I was a boy, I never even for a moment accepted that. Female is all I've ever identified as. I also used to cry whenever I was forced to have my hair cut.

I don't like gossip type chit-chat either, and I've always preffered the company of men over women, etc. Yet I've never once thought that having these traits means that I "think like a man", or that I actually might be "part man" after all. Female is all I've ever seen myself as, and all I've ever identified as. Yes, I have XX chromosomes, but this was something I was completely in the dark about until it was found out by accident a few years ago during medical tests. So all those years that I didn't know I was genetically female, what was it that made me always so sure that I'm female, despite how I was brought up?

Well, some (if not all) things that we are brought up as believing are masculine/feminine traits, are merely societal constructs. Why do very effeminate acting gay men not see themselves as women?

The second question I can't really answer, But I was brought up being treated as a boy instead of a girl. I've always seen the male physical attributes I have as not being me. When I look in the mirror, I see a deformed, distorted version of the body that I should always have had. The body that I've always viewed myself as having, is not the body I see when I look in the mirror. But I guess you'd actually have to ask an actual transsexual if that's similar to what they feel.

At least you are trying to learn more about the subject. Unlike most people who are happy being in blissful ignorance about the true mechanics of what makes up gender.

One last thing I would like to pick up on, was you saying that you have female genitals, that you look like a woman, and there is no mistaking it. However, there is an intersex condition called Swyer Syndrome. In which someone is born with a vagina, and the appearance of a normal female. They are brought up as female, and most identify as female too. However, they have undescended testes, and are in fact, XY chromosomally. The vast majority of women with this condition grow into adulthood completely unaware that they have it. (though it's usually discovered eventually) So they were born with outwordly female genitalia, and also look like women.

So going by your own criteria, that would make them women. Most people though, believe only males can be XY. So there's a conundrum right there. I am XX, but have some secondary male sex characteristics due to not being given the right medical treatment when I was younger. So these XY women (at least generally) would look more like natural women than me. Can you see now, the huge problem with trying to judge gender purely on the physical appearance?



@Orison: The ironic thing about those activists comments is that children are already being misled, and have been misled for countless years into believing the illusion that what makes up gender is black and white. Most babies born with outwordly visible intersex conditions at birth are mutilated, (and without their knowledge) to appear as one sex merely to try and erase the truth that gender is not black and white. Society can't handle the truth, so children like me had to pay the price for that. But we were/are the unseen, forgetten children. What about our lives which were destroyed in order to keep up this distorted, untrue view of what constiutes gender? Those activists are simply, like most people, blinded to the truth. And they probably couldn't handle it even if they were told.

@Roamy: No woman on the planet would want to go through what I've gone through, and to have the body I have. So I don't think it should be that hard to understand why I hate the fact that I'm not a normal woman. lol I can never accept this horrible body that I've been forced to live with as being "mine". It's also very hard for me, just knowing that normal, everyday things that most women do all the time without thinking about it, and take for granted, are things that I've never been able to experience. I'm learning to try and live with what I've been left with, but it will be a lifelong struggle for me. But everything in your post is of course right, and thank you for saying those nice things about me.

 

So do all transgendered people have chromosomes that don't match their genetalia, or is there also a psychological basis for it?

I know the brain is physical, but....well, take mental illnesses, for example. Schitzophrenia has been shown to be an inheritable trait. There is likely a gene for that. Generalized anxiety disorder, on the other hand, is a psychological disorder. There isn't really anything physical that predetermines someone is going to be prone to anxiety from birth.

So thats basically what I'm getting at. On the matter of the subject at hand, is there always a physical basis for gender or can it be purely psychological sometimes? Like, someone has a vagina and breasts, they have XX chromosomes, their body doesn't produce extra testosterone, yet they still feel like a man in a woman's body.

 

Absolutely not. Having chromosomes that don't match your genitalia means you have an intersex condition. Which has nothing to do with being transgender or being transsexual. However, due to the culture of secrecy the medical profession has created over the issue of intersex, many people like me, can go many years without even realising they have an intersex condition. Although my condition is caused by a defect which causes my body to overproduce androgens, rather than having a chromosomal anomaly.

However, for people who actually are transsexual, (people who have no chromosomal anomalies, but still identify as the opposite sex) then yes, it can also be part psychological. Scientific brain studies have revealed that some transsexual people do have areas of the brain that are more congurent with what the opposite sex should have, rather than that of their apparent birth sex. And many scientists in the field do believe there is a biological component to transsexualism.

Well, last year, France became the first country in the world to de-classify transsexualism as being a mental illness. And I'm sure it's only a matter of time before other countries follow their example. If it is true that some transsexuals are indeed born with the brain sex of the opposite sex, then unlike many mental illnesses, which can be treated with medication, transsexualism could not be treated like that, as brain sex is something you're born with, and cannot be changed. So if the brain can't be "fixed", then it's the outer body that has to be. Which means taking hormones and/or surgery.

That is a very difficult question to give a definitive answer to. And it is also worthwhile to note, that not everyone labelled as a "transsexual", has the same things wrong with them. Im sure for some it is purely psychological yes, although even then, a possible genetic cause cannot be totally ruled out. Though I do think in the vast majority of cases at least, where someone has felt from a very early age that they are in the wrong body, and has never deviated from feeling that way, then it is more physical than it is psychological.

 

All of the boob jobs, vaginoplasties, and hormone treatments in the world won't make the depression go away. The suicide rate is actually higher for post-ops, because the original mental problems, like depression, bipolar disorder, and OCD, usually go untreated with transgendered people. Most of them seem to believe that having a vagina created is going to solve all of their problems, then they have the surgery, and nothing changes, except that they go through two years of incontinence, walk around smelling like pee, and wearing a maxi-pad, and people still call them "sir" once in a while, sometimes just to be rude. Many lose their sex drive, don't continue the dilating after surgery, and end up without any vaginal depth. Without the surgery to look forward to, there is nothing else to pull them out of a depression, so they sink back into it, as the reality that they are nothing more than a man with boobs and mutilated genetalia hits home. It's a sad thing, really.

 

^^ Definite troll.

 

That could possible happen to some with gender dysphoria, with a high degree of mental issue, with very little income or transgender care in their area. Maybe even mutilating themselves to some degree. maybe 1 outa 1000. Most operations are successful today..

 

Nope, just trying to help you, actually, but I know enough about this to know that you won't listen. Nobody ever does, until a few years after the surgery, when they ask themselves...

WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING?

 

Define "successful"...please.

It seems to me that the ones who have very little income are the best off, because they'll never get the surgery.

 

I'm not a transsexual, so why would you want to "help" me for? lol You're definitely a troll, either that, or just totally ignorant of the actual facts about this issue. It is a FACT that the vast majority of transsexuals who have treatment and surgery benefit from it, and do not regret having it. Pre-ops are far more likely to attempt suicide and have severe depression than post ops. It is also a fact that most transpeople contemplate suicide because of society's hostile and ignorant attitude towards them, rather than because of their actual condition itself. Trans teens are 6 times more likely to commit suicide than non trans teens, which is mainly due to the bullying they suffer.

Where did you get your facts from? Right-wing christian science monthly? lol Because it's certainly not from any credible source of information on the subject, that's for sure.

 

Not when this small % range self mutilates. get enough whiskey and some Valium in a person with a knife. Its coming off.. sometimes planned or unplanned.
While doing so, there is no tissue to reconstruct a vagina. Much the penis tissue is used. If the penis isnt saved properly, Its going to cause more problems.
More so often people that muitalte themselves attack the testis, leaving the penis intact. Due to beliefs the male hormone is created there.

Btw this isnt the 1950-60 and 70's .. Its 2012. Successful surgey pictures can be found online with keywords. "transsexual sexual reassignment surgery"

 

Unfortunately, the nature of the beast is such that only post-ops can see the big picture, the self-deception, the mental illness, and the motivation ($$$) for keeping the sex change industry going. There is a big, and very ugly, picture that you can't see until it's too late. For instance, most trannies don't want to admit that they're trannies, so they come up with a story about being born with ambiguous genitalia, having ovaries, or whatever. This is all old hat to me...try telling it to a doctor, and (s)he will simply make a note that you are transgender. Nobody is going to believe it, whether it is true or not; in fact, nobody is going to take you seriously about anything, particularly in the medical community, because they will write you off as a nut case. That's what you have to live with, when you choose to go down this road, and it is, in fact, a choice, but that's one of the things that you don't see until you're reflecting back on it, years later. Eventually you reach a point where you have to admit things to yourself, just to stay sane.

I agree with you about society's hostile attitudes, and the problems that they cause. The biggest problem is, having that surgery done won't cause any of it to go away. It just lends a finality, a final acceptance of one's decisions, and the consequences to which they have led. More simply put, you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

 

I don't need to look at the pictures, I've already taken a closer look at this than I can ever take again, but thanks anyway.

 

Im a hairy titless tranny and Im proud.

 

So what? You're denying the existence of intersex people now, are you? You are completely ignorant about this issue, that much is apparent from the mindless, hateful drivel you've just posted.

 

Silly me, I would have guessed that you were a CD. I have many friends who are. We're not so close anymore, but we still get together and party once in a while. They're fun people to be with, for anyone who can put prejudice aside, but that's true for all people, really.