Agnosticism makes the most sense to me.

I seriously think no one knows, we are all limited to our ignorance and experiences of how we perceive and understand the world, there is no big realization to stumble upon, no ultimate truth to understand, even if there is the mind of man will never find it, because we are fallible, each mind sees the world in a different way and each person describes it differently, I feel no ultimate truth is to be found.

without knowledge, I could be "wrong" but hey, I'm just another ignorant human with his own obervations and philosophies regarding life, and that's all I am, and I honestly think that's all you are too... so let's just fucking enjoy this life, help each other out, and make it as easy as possible for our neighbor, if we stumble upon any profound realizations let's just do like the past, write em down and shell em to the next generation to try to understand.

 

I almost agree with you. Especially, if we accept the Darwinian theory of evolution, there would be no reason to expect humans to be able to arrive at ultimate truth, or even to be confident about the logical, mathematical, and scientific knowledge we think we have--including the Darwinian theory of evolution. There are lots things though that I think the more rational among us can be confident about. I was confident that no one would be raptured last Saturday, and I'm confident no one will be raptured on preacher's revised date of October 21. In fact, I'm confident no one will ever be raptured, because the theological support for it is fallacious. I'm confident that the world won't end in 2012, regardless of what the Maya said. I'm confident that the moon doesn't disppear if no one is looking at it as some people with Ph.Ds seem to think, and I doubt that our reality is just a Martix-style computer simulation, as other professors with endowed chairs maintain. I don't "know" these things for sure, but I'm willing to bet my life on them, on the basis of my personal experience, judgment, and reason. Does that make me an agnostic?

Anyhow, I don't want to argue with you, because in the relative scheme of things you sound like you've got your head screwed on right. I wish there were more like you.

 

Freedomman, I'm with you all the way up to "let's just do like the past", then I'm not.

 

To me,the best philosophy is "What you believe,is true".

I heard that when I was about 11 years old.
I pondered it for years before realising just how deep it really is.

 

Sounds to me like you're an atheist. You just don't realize it yet.

 

The only god that you can't disproven utilizing reason and evidence based conclusions, is a god that does not care about you or what you do in life.

So either way, it makes no difference whether god exists or not. It's a useless question because the only god that can't yet be proven or disprove is a god that doesn't care about our actions and our wellbeing.


All religious gods an easily easily be disproven using sound reasoning and evidence gathering.

 

I like to confine in science. Humans are faulty information recording devices but with science you can get some reliability of reality. Science, it accepts criticism, it actually needs it to work. If you're wrong, someone is gonna check your facts (unlike some communities) and the scientific community gets rid of what doesn't work and keeps what does, what stays true no matter what state your mood is in. Don't get me wrong science is awesome but I don't think it will get us to a "truth" or whatever "truth" you're looking for, but at the moment you can't prove there is a god nor can you prove there isn't a god :[ there for i remain agnostic.

My $.02

 

I am moving closer towards this philosophy. How I perceive the world depends entirely on my knowledge and beliefs. There is no viewing the world "as it is".

 

Given that I am an admirer of Buddhism, these are my "guiding" principles in my life:
1- Golden Rule: Treat others as...etc
2- Hammurabi: basically "society shall have laws"
3- Buddha: only you yourself can attain happiness
4- Moses (?): thou shall now kill
5- Jesus: be a good neighbor (i.e. the Good Samaritan)
6- Confucius: basically peace is attainable when things are in their proper places
7- Lao Tzu: basically know "way of life", then you'll find happiness
8- MLK: "I have a dream..." i.e. live life w/ a sense of purpose
9, 10, ...etc...

 

Just like every one else, I also like to know what is it like after death, but:

Someone once said, "Why do you want to know what life is like after death when you don't even know what life is?"

 

I think all positions make sense, theism, atheism, and agnosticism.

It's possible that belief in God can incur results of some sort, and anyone who chooses to seek this out has every right to. The same goes for disbelief, and the same goes for agnosticism.

The only thing that doesn't make sense is telling other people what they have to believe. Or looking down on someone because they believe a certain way.

 

That makes sense too. In fact, theism always incites that peoples look down on disbelievers because disbelief or unfaithfullness is considered wrong and worth punishment in the 'god' of choice.

What you said is self-refuting, you can't accept theism because of the concept of faith that is implicit in theism.

Personally, anything goes.

If you want to force your beliefs on me physically or through law then you got something coming your way.

:2thumbsup:

 

I consider myself a theist, and some of my closest friends are atheists or agnostics. I don't look down on them at all.

I think the ideal theist seeks God. And those who look for it are more likely to find it than those who don't. You can't just come from the standpoint, "There is no God, so there's no reason to look for it." That's ludicrous. What we're talking about is the possibility that there is a higher order of mind in the universe.

But I grant the same token of respect to atheists. I believe in the beauty of diversity. And there's no telling what might be discovered via an atheist's mind vs. a theist's. And vice versa. In the name of science, all avenues should be explored. At least until there is a conclusive answer to the question.

It really irks me that what ought to be a scientific question, which is the existence of a higher intelligence that is aware of us, possibly created the universe, can manipulate our reality, etc....is made into such a disgusting thing as the various world religions.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

Don't worry about it, I'm sure "they" looked down on "you" 5,000 years ago.

About 10K yrs. ago, I often put myself in the hunter-gatherers' "shoes" and after I realized that when they discovered agriculture, the natural inclination to want something more (spiritually) can not be refuted.

 

I used to dislike the word God when spoken in the Christian sense b/c I did not belong to said religion.
However, after reading what some Hindu guru said about the difference betwn Jesus's teachings and "Church-anity," the word God no longer incites intense opposition from me ever since (~age 20).
This just goes to show that w/out education, your presumptions will get the best of you.

 

When you realize anyone can be wrong about anything, making a philosophical point about it becomes kind of trivial. Sort of like telling two players in a chess game that the board is checkered.

On one hand, 'god does not exist' is a falsifiable claim, provided we do a good enough job defining god (which is never going to happen around here). On the other 'god does too exist' is not falsifiable, especially when defined as a supernatural entity, making the unknown aspect an essential component to gods definition.

Superfluous idea just don't fit into naturalism (you might call it atheism). That's not to say whether or not god exists, its just ill-defined ideas cant slip through into an adequately defined paradigm.

 

Unlike most here, I don't categorize nor allow myself to be categorized in terms of my religious belief.
E.g., I can't become an atheist for the simple fact that (in the modern time) it is a direct reaction to theism and for my comment on the hunter-gatherer society above.
I can't be an agnostic b/c they only allow for the possibility of God existing, which to me is simply just a more open-minded atheist.

As for me, I wouldn't say whether Abraham's God exists or not, but I'd say that there is some higher power out there that could possibly be responsible for the formation of our or all the universes.

 

I too think theres some 'power' we haven't recognized. Science is our best chance of finding it and our 'creator' and the origins of the universe. Do philosophy and religion have any answers left?

 

I agree that science, specifically the scientific method, is the best knowledge-finding tool we humans have ever developed.
Regarding this "power" it does not have to be a "creator" per se, but it could be some kind of catalyst that jump started a reaction that resulted in the formation (and even the dissolution) of the universe.

 

I consider myself agnostic, well I most certainly believe in a ''higher power'' but I think it has nothing to do with the afterlife. Religion is written and made up by people, for example the bible has been re-written who knows how many times... Honestly I think its all propaganda and the most powerful people are controlling us by religion ect ect. I'm not sending a message that we must go against it. I however am very spiritual but do not follow any religion. But this is just another person thinking this is how it really is... No one will ever know what is the real truth when it comes to religion.