Feeling a sense of oneness

Anyone who thinks that Oneness is more authentically achieved under the use of psychedelics is highly mistaken. I would agree that shrooms and lsd have shown me things that i never even knew were possible to see, but the fact is that every trip comes down sooner or later. The best thing that they've done was crack open my head, or gave me that initial glimpse beyond the veil.

Psychedelics are NOT the real deal when we're talking about Oneness. So i wouldn't rely on it for that purpose. Not saying that i didn't rely on it for that purpose for a long time. But a time will come where you will mature beyond your dependency on ANYTHING in regards to Oneness. That is if you really want to see the Truth (and that's a big "if"). And when i say "anything", i'm not only talking about psychedelics, but also meditation, yoga, chanting, or anything else for that matter. Soon all of your techniques will fail and you'll have to let them go. The fastest and most efficient path to permanent resting in the Absolute is the path of failure.

As long as your mind is trying to use some technique to maintain That which needs no maintenence, then you're still chasing an illusion, even if it's a pleasant illusion.

So it's wrong to say that Oneness is ever even achieved. Oneness IS. And Oneness includes, surrounds, and is the Source of the appearance of duality.

 

i love this, but couldn't you say this "big mind" or oneness is maintainable once achieved, through the act of calming the mind, and isn't calming the mind through meditation a tool, until we let go of all tools?

i would just like to say that opening the mind to the truth by use of LSD is not a terrible thing, but couldn't you say our dependence on it to see this truth is just as bad as our dependence to our everyday desires? (lesser or greater)

so in the end it does not matter if we drop, see the truth, just as it does not matter if we drink coffee every morning or commit gluttony every meal? as long as we know there is a truth though, it becomes something to search... it's beginning the path of no paths, or the way of no way.

to be honest i've only experienced such great sensation of the oneness through LSD, the farthest (if you want to consider it far?) i have gone in my meditation is hearing that we are what we think, meaning we are literally nobody. and this delighted me and made very much sense to me at one time.

i could go on all day about this stuff ever since i've been in "here & now" more than a dozen times....

 

Definitely, and if you want to truly understand, you must use other tools as well. It is true, however, that without psychedelics, it will take a very long time to reach the same understanding. For most, at least, I think.

Let's hope we all do.

 

Yes you're right on everything that you said. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using these tools for as long as you need to use them. Perhaps this whole life you'll enjoy what meditation and psychedelics do for you. There's literally nothing wrong with that. Once the tool becomes a clutch though, and a hindrance, then it might be time to let go. I like the saying that goes something along the lines of the fact that you only use a boat to get you across the river, and once you're to the other shore, you don't need the boat anymore, it has served its function, and it's time to let it go.

But there's nothing wrong with paddling on the boat in the river your whole life if that's your thing.:sunny:

 

Thing is, we can't ignore the fact that if psychedelics take us there and we have no idea where we're going/what's going on, we will always come down and there will be no way for us to get there without psychedelics. Like Maynard (from tool) was saying, if you do psychedelics and you are unprepared, there will be a thousand things flying by you and you won't even realize it in the first place.

I've been reading Be Here Now by Ram Dass and he explains how they used to do INSANE amounts of LSD in the 60's, for weeks on end, trying to achieve that state - and they would - but since they didnt know what the hell was really going on, they would always come down and need the drugs to get back there. It wasnt until he went to India and met Maharaj Ji that he started to finally understand amd maintain a more enduring level of awareness.

:sunny:

 

This pretty much sums up exactly how I feel. Before I experienced this, I ignorantly assumed this connection was just between what we call organic things; really it is between all existing things.

I feel like I sound stereotypical when talking about the psychedelic experience with inexperienced people. But, this is a real experience and an amazing one.

When viewing existence this way, I feel ultimate empathy for any living thing that I am around, almost as if I am actually feeling what it is like to be them.

I felt the sadness my cat feels being the sort of outside that is always picked on by my other cats. I also felt the love that she has for me and the security she feels when in my room. I then started viewing her as an equation. That's about as best as I can put it. I didn't understand anything knew, but I knew something I didn't know before. When this occurred, she freaked out and ran to my door.

Existence is so mysterious, yet so simple and has become the main interest in my life.

 

I like this. So true. I feel as if my interest in psychedelics kind of kept going past psychedelics and into just the pure mystery of existence, and staying very simple with my approach to it. This is what fueled my passion to start doing psychedelics in the first place. The mystery of the infinite. Nothing wrong with psychs though. I still enjoy reading about them and it's still very much a part of my life in many ways. Just not using them for a while.

Psychedelics have also sort of pointed the way for me towards things such as Shamanism and just Consciousness in general, which i simply point out because i feel that things such as LSD are most vitally executed when dealing with things such as Consciousness. I suppose that's super obvious, though.

 

30mg 4-ho-met for about an hour at the peak I truely felt that there was an "I", and this "I" was only one thing, I was the universe. It was confusing for a few minutes when I tried to figure out who "I" was looking at my friend, but then I realized that her, me, and the couch were all "me". The universe. I became enlightened in the fullest meaning of the word, and I realized, that I am the universe experiencing itself.

It was a beautiful thing, and I mediated and took in the connectedness I felt with everything.

 

Do you think that you can ever get back there without the use of psychedelics? Do you think one could ever get there without having ever seen it with psychedelics?

 

Not in the way psychedelics take you. There's no way the human brain can emulate a foreign psychedelic attaching to its synapses. You might arrive at an equivalent endogenous experience, but there's no way you could ever meditate yourself into the oneness brought on by LSD. Even if you meditated into a more "real", "true", and "strong" oneness, you might say its better than the LSD oneness, but its still not the LSD oneness just no substitution. Psychedelics go behind the curtains and hack our wiring.

 

Have you ever heard the story of Ram Dass giving five hits to Maharajji in India, and Maharaji not being changed at all by the hits because he was apparently ''already there''?

 

I have been shown the oneness in several ways all while high on mary jane and taking nitrous hits.

 

Yes I've heard that story and don't believe it. I find it unlikely that any human in any state of spiritual development would not be blown to bits on 5 hits of 60s strength LSD. I can understand that his sentiment might be true, ie. he might have come out of the experience saying "Wow, that was ridiculously intense, however I did not learn anything I didn't already learn from meditation!". But I simply cannot believe that his spiritual/mental development somehow trumped the raw pharmacological power of LSD. He and I share the same synapses. I think it's a bit of a wives tale at this point even if it contains a good grain of truth.

 

I had that vision of oneness and pretty much built my life around it. Basically I've been affirming and realizing that vision by doing mercy for 35 years, though a week ago I retired from my work and volunteer work. I'll still be a good person most of the the time and an asshole sometimes (some things don't change much).

I experienced that vision as revelation of The Truth and I based my life on it. People in the world I left have various ideas about me, but I doubt many understand that it's the visions, real-izations, and changes given through LSD.

 

I totally agree.

 

degrees of Oneness is an arbritrary concept. Everything is already One, whether it's you sipping your coffee, or you having an amazing ecstatic sexual experience, or you getting into an argument, or you having the most wild psychedelic trip of all time. Still One.

So to imply that a psychedelic trip is more One than not, or vice-versa, doesn't really matter at the end. a psychedelic trip that messes with your synapses in ways that meditation does not is just simply that, itself. Both of them are two of an infinite amount of things. The Ultimate reality can't ultimately be altered. It contains every potential.

Whether you even "get it" or not at the end doesn't even matter. This dry and compassionless perspective is also just one of an infinite amount of perspectives.

The question is, who or what is the One that's witnessing all these perspectives? Put all your focus on what it is that sees you getting up in the morning and taking a shower, and you having a wild psychedelic experience.

 

when you realise that you are the universe experiencing itself then you will realise that you need to be connected also through action. the gita has some interesting stuff on the subject.

but to a certain extent how much does experiencing oneness hinder one's conscience? what good is it if you realise oneness and then go sit in a cave for the rest of your life? why would that be justifiable over acting on the truth and oneness that you have come to realise? the reason that we experience such unity in peak psychedelic experiences is because we are seeing past the curtain of illusion. but once the experience is over then the curtain comes back over. but having seen behind the curtain a person can start to realise what it takes to permenantly pull back that curtain. in the words of fight club 'hitting rock bottom is not a weekend retreat' psychedelics can open the door but we are the one that has the step through them. if you do not step through the door then you are wasting time and energy.

however without discernment and guidance it just isn't possible -- it's easy to get lost in the vast spiritual realms. we can't do this alone.

 

I would agree. You need to become an authentic expression of the truth you have realized. And i do feel that it is possible to "permanently" pull back the curtain, even though that ultimately is also just an illusion, but a necessary one to experience.

Basically, if you're into wild psychedelic experiences and the ecstasy of the union that you feel from them, have at it. Do it all you want. But if you're interested in Oneness, despite what experience you are having or what mood you may be in, no matter where you are, then it's silly to rely on the psychedelic experience for these means and purposes. It's not a realistic way to approach it. Oneness is about having no supports of any kind. No crutches.

It's about realizing 100 percent WHO IT IS that pulls back the curtain through insane union psychedelic experiences, only to come down again and to feel once again that the curtain is back. What is it that's witnessing both of these movements of the pendulum?

At a certain point you get fed up with chasing the ecstasy-union and running away from the ego-separation. Once you realize that you're at the Center of the entire spinning of the wheel of pain/pleasure that you can finally retire from the suffering that that chase entails. Only then does the idea of a curtain or veil become just a meaningless idea for you.

Not to say that any of this is easy, necessarily.

 

ah, i feel like i get what you're saying now. the first time i read this i feel that i misinterpreted you. i would agree with all of this though. you quite literally can't actually re-create the LSD experience without actually using LSD.

 

yes!

having no supports of any kind can fall totally apart from purpose. relinquishing one's supports without a cause is just a vain manifestation of ego. for what purpose are you releasing your support? what good is it to liberate yourself if you cannot liberate others?

i truly do believe that oneness can only be experienced as a divine unity between a finite soul and his creator within the context of community. that there is only one path to truth, and the rest lead to illusion. where do you think that path is?