14 Anonymous Arrested in US

the best course action i would advise for anon to do is send out a list of geivances to all entities the do not feel is doing their job adiquately. since they stole millions of Emails already that should be Easy no?

they need the list, offer solutions or alternatives, and imply consequences. i'd advise it not be an ultimatium that can be seen as a threat, but consequences must but implied.

also if the could include a reference link to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_and_Resolves_of_the_First_Continental_Congress
it would help.

hope you can send this up the pipe line.

everything must consise, well educated, and well reaserched.
good luck mister self righteous anarchist prick.

 

I've got a lot of respect for Bradley Manning. Anonymous, I'm not sure about.

 

The problem with strictly adhering to the 'law' simply because it's law is that the people do not design the law.

The law is not being designed in the peoples' best interests.
Is it not in our best interest to know what corporations are doing?
Is it not in our best interest to make sure back room deals are not being cut between governments and big business?

We need entities like Anonymous to help keep us informed and to keep big business and government in check because they are not doing it themselves.

 

I don't see why these people have to be anonymous. Look at Assange he only gained strength being thrust into the public eye, which wouldn't have happened had no one known about him. If the public see the activity as just, which most would, then incidents like these would be totally against the government's interest. Instead they've got the upper hand because no one knows or cares about the people behind this. They're just like the faceless corporate yes men.

 

Anonymous' strength is not in notoriety, it's in anonymity.
Look at what happened when the FBI found out the identities of 14 of the anonymous 'agents'.

I understand what you mean about the public support of something they can put a face to but do you really think if the public were able to put a face and name to the hackers they would have been at their doorsteps protesting against the FBI's raid?

I know that would not have happened. Sure facebook and twitter would have been abuzz. In the mean time, the hackers would have been handcuffed, unable to do what they do best.

 

This accomplishes nothing.

 

Hmmm, I don't recall equating hacking with anything, if you read the post again you will find that I contrasted hacking with the murderous, opressive ways of government.

The subject you are broaching is what is legal and what is lawful. Can I suggest that you do some research into common law/the law of the land/the law for natural human beings, versus maritime law/law of the water/the law for corporations?

Read my post again, I said "illegality is fair game" which is admission (and I admit, condonation) of illegal activity, which you have labelled "crime". Yes, IF I were to use an argument like that, it would be wise to include that argument... Which is why, after "Ooooh hacking is a crime..." I then spun off a few of the governments' crimes. Read my post again but please engage your mental faculties, I do not write for children.

Even if Anonymous were "a bunch of self-righteous Anarchist pricks " doing whatever the hell they want, remember that it is this system that produced them, there is a reason for their behaviour. On the flip side of your opinion, perhaps attacking the government will show people and activists that the government is not invincible. Maybe Anon's actions cause people to say "You know what, Bobby-Sue, it's about time somebody knocked that darn government down a few pegs, give 'em one for me, anonny mouse!" Did you consider that? Anonymous are being demonized by the mass media, this is true. But is it working? I think if you check Anonymous' popularity and progress, since their very first anti-scientology rally, since they tracked down the paedophile and now since they have hacked and protested (large groups of anons have been seen in protests throughout Europe) with the people in mind, with freedom of expression in mind, you will find that they are doing very well. That was a looooooooooong(cat) sentence.

You are severely misusing the term "rational". You should have said "average" or "non-thinking". "Why are they doing this stuff" is exactly the question a rational member of society would ask. A rational member of society would surely have seen the need for such activism? Perhaps we have very different views of rationality. Obviously, my definition is the popular one.

I don't recall figuratively smashing windows or sending death threats lately. Hmm. Does that make me an intellectual? I had no idea. Wouldn'tit be nice if we lived in a world where we could ask for a fair and just society and, like magic, it would manifest? Wouldn't it be great if we could achieve our ambitions through reasonable debate? WAKE UP. THE WORLD DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT! If it did, we wouldn't be in this mess now, would we? Like I said, it puts me in mind of the animal liberation movement. The activists would tell a fur farmer/lab animal breeder the wrong and harm they are doing, they would ask them to stop. They would stage peaceful protests. They would block the roads in and out in a less peaceful protest, all to no avail. Eventually, they realised that if they were going to see their dreams come true, they had to break fences, smash windows, scare people, damage property and effectively steal the animals to freedom. Again, please re-read my post and apply cognative functions.

And perhaps we have come to the core of issue. You couldn't play your little video games. Awww my heart truly bleeds for you, such a shame that you couldn't indulge yourself in shallow, non-productive, environment damaging, resource wasting, mind-numbing and frivolous entertainments for a fraction of your life! Or did you just play offline? Or play your PC instead? I have to tell you, in capital letters: GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT because anonymous did not take down the Sony network. A lone hacker, NOT affiliated with anonymous was the perpetrator of that. Anonymous did take part in hacking Sony but only to expose their weaknesses and lack of commitment to strengthening those weaknesses. They took and released information, fucked around in there a bit. They did NOT take down the ENTIRE network. And I fully condone taking down Sony's network, anyway. I wish that all the console (and PC) gaming networks and servers were taken down because, in my view, it is such a waste of human potential and terrestrial resources to be constantly indulging in such childish and non-benificial behaviour.

Remember, friend, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Copishe?

 

So what you're saying is, that anonymous should send a list of what they think is wrong and ask that it gets sorted out..? Don't you think that this attempt has been tried? About a thousand times? Do you really think that ANYONE would pay attention to that? Let me tell you, this "list of grievances" has been passed around at the top for a long time. They have a damn good chuckle at it when they're feeling down. The terms have not been met, the consequences that aren't a threat but are (?????), are now under way, THIS IS THE CONSEQUENCE, DUDE!

I would think it would be below such a well educated individual who researches so much, expresses his views concisely with perfect spelling and grammar and has such an imaginative grasp on comprehending the meaning behind other people's actions and writings to be so crass. It's a good thing that it's you being crass then, eh?

 

Except the "rational" members of society will take a dim view of him. Good thing he didn't say anything that would make him throwing around silly insults a bit of a contradiction on his part. Oh, wait...

 

If the governments and corporations that need rebelling against adhered to the law that they enforce then there would be no need for a rebellion in the first place. I can't speak for the UK, but I challenge any citizen of the U.S. who reads this to point out a single piece of legislation that they felt they helped to initiate either on an individual basis or as a group that fully represents their own interest? It takes wealth to "lobby" a politician - no wealth (and I mean a LOT of wealth) - other than that your only power is to agree or disagree with a choice that has been constructed for you (not by you) and your decision is based on the campaign promises of a given
politician who is under no obligation to keep that promise - just as this country's electorate is under no obligation to vote with the will of the people. I literally grit my teeth whenever I hear someone using the word democracy in reference to the United States. Now I'm starting to grit my teeth when they refer to it as a republic - because that has become equally inaccurate. The fact of the matter is - this government has been completely privatized - we live under a kind of feudal mercantilism that masquerades as a free republic to keep us all stupid, ignorant, confused, divided, misinformed, misled, apathetic, fearful, lazy and docile. "Your" government is nothing more (like I said) than a PR department of your master corporation.

 

i forgot satire doesn't work well through the internet. i'm *trying* to help but its obvious guy is one sided and single minded.

 

Wise men don't need advice, fools won't take it. He only profits from praise who values criticism. A word to the wise isn't necessary, it's the ignorant ones who need advice. Nobody can mislead you if you follow your own steps.

Have we heard any more news on the arrested anons, anyone?

 

in the previous post you justified your hacking crime by comparing it to slavery and murder. as i said, its not comparable but you made it seem so. therefore, you equated slavery with hacking.

if you want to win against corporations you [anon] is going to have to play in their world on their turf. you think idealistic philisophical bullshit is going to phase the almighty power of the dollar? of course not. SO you have to manipulate THEIR world. what is their world? their world is the society they've created. i'm sure you know all about The corporate world. so send out the memos into their world to show your [Anon's] reasoning for fucking with them.

i really dont feel like addressing every misconception you had with my post so i will just conclude.

Revolutions, are a process they do not happen over night, in a week or even in a year. if you and anon want to be effective instruments of revolution you have to play the game correctly. "Rational Citizens of Society" [meaning the people who dont want to get fucked by the law] are conditioned to follow society's values because that is what they have been brought up to believe and understand. when people like you or anon start talking about rebellion rational citizens will think "why would i want to bring more trouble upon myself ? the law is in place to prevent anarchy and you people want to get rid of the law? no way!" copishe?

you [anon] has to play the game correctly. the founding fathers of America played the game correctly. Yes, most revolutions lead to physical conflict but the founding fathers actually HAD justification for their part in the conflict.
you have to establish Legitamate justification FIRST, then escalate your efforts to what ever means nessecary.

in any case, i can already tell i'm talking with a foot soldier and not an actual think-tank here...

 

DSK is the greatest example I can think of for somebody who tried to play the game on their turf by their rules. And look at him now. People are sick of playing the rigged game on turf that is OURS that they say is theirs. Seriously, maybe I wasn't clear before, the "memos" have been sent. You must take it upon yourself at this point to discover the message of anonymous, they have layed their demands, reasons and intentions on the table for all the corporate world to see, several times.

Why would we waste time manipulating their world when we are too busy changing ours? Have you never considered that all worlds are one and the same when it comes to the worlds we humans choose to inhabit? There is in fact only one world that we all share and I for one will not relinquish my share of it without a fight to the death. Idealistic philosophical bullshit, you can't have a revolution without it! Where would we be with no ideals? How would we understand our need for ideals without philosophy? You may not be aware of this but some people would consider what you post to be "idealistic philosophical bullshit". Perhaps with less emphasis on the philosophical side of things, granted.

Again, I would propose that you are misusing the word "rational" but I see what you are saying. The truth is, anonymous or any other activist group has no interest in people that are so conditioned in this way, they are merely sheep and will go along with whatever they're told. They're non-entities in the grand game; they will not attack or defend based on their beliefs, they will not comply or resist based on ideology. The grand game is played way above their heads. Of course, anonymous promotes the education of these people so that their eyes can be opened to the conditioning they have been subjected to. Through this education, they may become players in the game. Again, I implore you to take it upon yourself to research anonymous' message instead of filling the gaps in yourself. You have filled in your gaps using terms like "anarchist", you have assumed that "rational" people would do the same. At no time has anonymous implied that they want to dispose of the law, I can't see how you would have people reach that conclusion. They are in fact supporters of the law and justice, wishing it to be used in full force on those that truly deserve it. May I bring to your attention that anonymous made a name for themselves by hunting down internet paedophiles? Now they are hunting even bigger criminals (who are probably paedophiles too based on some of the videos I've seen).

As I implied before, legitimate justification has already been established, escalation is the current phase underway. Keep up, dear. You are right in that they do not happen overnight, however you seem to have failed in considering the fact that this particular arm of the revolt has been going on for many nights and is but an off-shoot of many nights' revolution before it. We are in the latter stages of the revolution when you look at the bigger picture.

1. Anonymous has no structure, no rank, no hierarchy. There are more and less active members, there are those with more ideas and wider influence but your assumption of hierarchy does nothing more than demonstrate your ignorance, as does the majority of what you have posted in this thread. I am sorry but I can see no other way to put it.
2. My only association with anonymous is through promoting their message, no active member of anonymous has ever spoken with me, I have never taken part in any "hacktivism". You have assumed that I am "in" anonymous and can somehow relay messages for you, this is not the case.
3. The propaganda (I normally like to say message) of anonymous is not hard to find: Youtube; twitter; facebook even, I think; google and yahoo, it's awfully easy to find and get clued up on these things. It would help you to reach them, too, to offer your opinion, though be warned: they probably won't care. And when you think about it, opinions are really worth shit all anyway. If we weren't full of opinions all the time then the world wouldn't be so fucked up.

 

if we only live in one world and the corporate world = their world, does that mean our world = the corporate world?
or rather instead of saying "world" we can say society.
if we only have one society [american respectively] and the corporate society = their society, does that mean our society = the corporate society? by this arguement it does. do keep in mind it was corporation who built, operate, and maintain the society at large. so you must realize that in the real world you are constantly in their turf. in cyberspace it maybe a different story to a certain extent, but ultimately the corporations will win. they will use all their mechanisms of society they created [in this case the LAW which obviously suits the corporations needs, when needed] to shut Anon down.

i've read up alittle on Anon and one of their goals is to "keep cyber space free", and some other noble things about riding the world of scientology. i'll admit i am ignorant towards them. why am ignorant? because i dont know how to hack and i dont want the FBI on my balls about being affiliated with Anon [thats the rational citizen of society in me talking].
i have never even heard of Anon before the sony hack. what does that say about the effectiveness of their actions? very little to nothing actually. so do you seriously expect me or anybody to "research" an organization that seemingly doesnt exist to me?

i find it a bit ironic when "revolutionarys" and "free thinkers" demean people who don't know what they [the free thinker], THINK that they know, about the world, and call them ignorant for being unknowledgeable like its their fault. human beings are born to survive in the world around them, and there is only ONE world around them. as i said earlier, the world belongs to the corporations, so if you comply by their rules you will survive. do you see what i'm saying here?

if Anon wants to change the world they are going to have to do so by following certain rules of the world that is given to them. by doing this they will be justified, they will be effective, and they will recieve legitamte attention.

 

Really......

I dont like hacking idiots who cause problems for ppl FOR NO REASON!

 

Hahahahaha. Just wait kiddo.