The trinity ???

According to the scriptures, only the Father knows when this world will end - Not even the Son knows. If God is one - how can the Son not know all that the Father knows? I have been taught the trinity all my life but find it hard to grasp. Apparently there are separate responsibilities for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - ie the Word (the Son) created the world and all that is in it.
Is the Father chief among the Trinity or all all three persons equal?
Very Perplexing.

 

I can't cite you sources, but I've read that some Bible scholars believe that Jesus in human form was voluntarily shielded from certain knowledge that would have been inconsistent with His humanity and mission. In other words, Jesus the man was not omniscient.

 

You'll find that the ancient Hebrews took (borrowed or something) their religious beliefs from still earlier religious beliefs. Look to the Sumerian Pantheon, and pay attention to the "Triad".

Sort of like we have one Federal Government. Now, count how many persons are in that one government. You might think of GOD as one Heavenly organization, with 3 persons in that organization. We have the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Ancient Sumeria had Anu, Enki, and Enlil as their "Triad". Of course, they were also into "Polytheisim", and had far more than just 3 persons in their list of GODs.

 

I agree with Okie plus what you are saying in that there are separate responsibilities certainly seems to have credibility.
I always was taught, understood (or something) that the Holy Ghost was like a spirit...such as the Holy Ghost descended upon those building the tower of Babel so that they could not communicate (and not complete the tower)....but of course that is just one example and it is also noted in the NT that the Holy Spirit came into Jesus at His baptising, right? I've been told that it is the Holy Spirit come into/upon someone when they speak in tongues.
God of God is what I call the Master Creator, Yawhey, Jehovah, and a couple of others when I'm so moved.

I think the other poster said something about christianity "borrowing" the triune thinking...I don't disagree with that....In fact I do consider the God-head, the Holy Trinity, to be a (THE) triumphirate, if that makes sense. I guess I'm saying I fail to see why seeing the Holy Trinity, the God-head is far-fetched thinking. Hey, I've had a lot of time by myself...it leaves a lot of time and room for thinking.

I believe in the trinity...and it's been after years of study of all types of "religions", etc. There are some people that do NOT really really believe in the trinity, and others that choose to not really think about it.

It does say in the NT, well Jesus said that none will come to the Father except through me.

 

Here is a very good source that delves very deep into the subject: http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity.html

But in short, the trinity was only taught after a time when esoteric and paganistic concepts began to infiltrate the congregation.

You will notice that all scripture used to support the concept of the trinity requires to be read into the text. When looking at it closely, comparing to whats being said before and after the verse, and using a concordance, it shows to say something very different.

I used to be a Catholic from 13 through around 16 and believed in the trinity. Later in life I believed in it again but after some time I stopped believing in it and I found that it makes more sense and scriptural sense that Jesus is not a part of a trinity.

 

All terms are symbols for conditions. the trinity is a symbol for a sort of power arrangement in reality, regardless where it is believed to originate from.

God equals the absolute
the holy spirit equals the quantum
the son equals the physical

We are all part of this same power sharing method of creation.

 

Simply there is no trinity, there is Almighty God and he has a son Jesus Christ and there is the Holy Spirit and they are 3 separate things and they are not one thing like an "Egg" or "3in1 oil".

 

by definition,
Trin·i·ty

n
1. God in three forms: in Christianity, God seen in three ways as the Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spiri

or

trin·i·ty [trínnətee]
(plural trin·i·ties)
n
1. three: a group of three
2. being three: the condition of existing as three persons or things

There is an experiential conjugation for every word we speak.

 

Just like elbows and butt-holes, everybody has 'em and that ^ is merely your opinion. NOT fact, opinion.

 

So where does the Shekinah fit in? Not a separate deity, granted, but an aspect of Yaweh. But the term "person" re the Trinity comes from persona, the masks worn in the theater of the time. What's the difference?

 

Thanks for the kind words but quite simply the trinity does not exist and that's a fact.

 

First the term Shekinah is not used in the Bible but the term has been used to designate the light or glow that lit the Most Holy and was present in both the tabernacle and Solomon’s temple but was one of the things lacking in the temple built under Governor Zerubbabel’s supervision. It was just a light that Yahweh used as an indication to the Israelites that Yahweh’s favor attended them.

 

I share your conclusion, but your flat assertion is a bit dogmatic, considering the number of intelligent Christian scholars who disagree with you. The notion of the Trinity was an attempt to reconcile monotheism with the growing belief that Jesus was divine. In the second and third centuries, two popes and the Roman church accepted modalism: that Jesus was an aspect or incarnation of Yahweh on earth. The idea that Jesus was a separate person from God the Father was mainly developed by the influential church father Tertullian in reaction against that position. Since Jesus (John14:16) speaks of the Holy Spirit as "another Advocate, the Spirit was added as a third part of the triune God. Tertullian was a persuasive fellow, gifted in rhetoric and argumentation, and was able to get the Trinity accepted as a "mystery".

 

So whats that make us, unintelligent Christian scholars?

 

No, there are intelligent scholars on both sides. But unfortunately intelligence doesn't decide the outcome in the battle of memes. The controversy re-emerged when Arius of Alexander contended that the Father preceded the Son and that the Son was a distinct substance.This led to the famous showdown between the followers of Arius and the principal trinitarian, Athanasius, at the Council of Nicaea in 325. The trinitarian position won overwhelming support at the Council, and the backing of Emperor Constantine, who wanted the issue settled. After the usual bloodbaths over the issue, (mostly against the Arians, but the tables were turned briefly when the Arian Visigoths invaded the Roman empire) Athanasius' position became the orthodox one and embodied in the Nicaean creed.

 

Though as much as he wanted it settled, his baptizer was an Arian bishop.

Okie, yes "person" in the Christian Philosophical does come from the idea of a mask worn in Greek theatre, but Tertulliam and Boethius changed the definition to refer to that which possesses intellect and will.

The persons of the Trinity do not merely reflect different ways in which God acts, or masks God puts on. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are truly three distinct persons united in one singular essence.

 

At 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 it says;
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I was just wondering how Trinitarians view these verses?

Also

You seem to believe that Jesus is God, so I'd like to know how you view these verses.

 

I'm not a Trinitarian and believe that Jesus was divine only in a metaphorical sense, so I'll be of no help at all. I think Jesus was what Marcus Borg calls "a spirit person", a teacher of wisdom and a social prophet. (Ain't that divine!) As for the passage quoted, it sure is convoluted. I don't think parsing it out will give us much insight into the relationship between God and Jesus. We don't learn much of importance that way.

 

I don't believe that we have ever discussed your view of who Jesus is before. It just seemed like I had seen you post something about Jesus being God or that Jesus was God's name but I must have been mistaken. Thanx anyway.

 

There are just so many verses in the bible...that I think I'll just stick with this one (since we're going to quote obscure verses to ?). Jesus is given "credit" for saying it (as it is in red" - and this is actually easy to understand.
John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."