I want to play devil's advocate

well exactly.

i think things like this really distract from actual instances of alcohol induced rape. a girl who is passed out drunk and is raped is then put in the same category as a somewhat drunk yet still totally conscious girl who apparently even remembers the instance enough to apologize for her behavior.

suddenly the raped girl also "shouldn't have gotten drunk to begin with" and it's all her fault etc etc, blah blah blah.

i don't like this thread. boo.

 

THIS is the most telling thing in the story. This dude's attitude towards womyn is VERY clear (any womyn who would sleep with him is a "bitch") and no amount of whining on his part would get me ANY sympathy for him. He refers to her as "bitch" TWICE in the post, then several times criticizes her sexual performance is very disrespectful manner, in a manner which seems to be his normal way of refering to womyn. Fuck him, or better yet, don't. Maybe the only way this particular dude CAN get laid is to nail a "drunk bitch."

When I suggested that drunk womyn be off limits as sex partners.

WHY isn't it realistic? Again I ask, is the only way some guys get laid is to get (or find) a womyn in a state of intoxication? My take on guys who pick up "chicks in bars every day?" Losers. There much better ways to meet womyn, and much more healthy atmospheres to get to know them. I've never picked up a sex partner in a bar, and neither has my dh. A LOT of people have great satifying sex and partnership without alcohol EVER having to be part of the equation.

 

Uh, he was questioned about rape for sleeping with this girl. You dont think that would provoke anger? I would be furious if someone acused me of rape

What do you think of women who go to bars to be picked up?

Its not realistic because 1) people have sex, 2) people drink. Millions of americans have sex while they are 'intoxicated.'

Just becuase you are drunk doesnt mean you cant give consent. People need to take more responsibility for their actions. I think it was clear, if this guys story is true, that this was not rape. He may not be a standup guy, but its not rape.

 

maggie sugar was laying out a game plan ( ie, don't do drunk girls ) as a general rule that would just make the problem avoidable. and i don't think there's anyway to say that this wouldn't get rid of the problem!

you could also say girls should never drink in public. however this is a little less realistic. often, girls go out with other girls with the prospect of keeping an eye on one another, then they get separated, or don't know each other's drinking habits. that being said, i'd say most people who have been violated while drunk have probably altered their social drinking habits.

beyon that, everything just has to be examined on a case by case basis. i think the level of drunkness required for a person to be considered able to give consent is pretty obvious - it doesn't apply to a tipsy person who clearly remembers the acts and made the decision themselves whole-heartedly, but to people who are incapacitated, vomiting, incapable of speaking clearly, passing out, etc.

and i think the whole conclusion of this guy's story was that the girl did NOT say it was rape. her neighbors may have just judging on the fact that they knew she'd been drinking, but hadn't actually been in contact to know just how much she had been drinking. in my eyes, he sounds like a disgusting person though. but my opinion about him personally doesn't really matter

 

Great post, I may use that on the awful forums. Though to continue my devil's advocacy I'm not so sure that this is the only way he can get laid. He may have had other channels for getting laid but a quick, albiet an unethical one fell into his lap. If I had a good job and I saw someone drop a $20 bill and I steal it that doesn't mean I have no other means of getting $20, it just means that I'm an opportunistic bastard.

I'm not a very good devil's advocate.