Thank you capitalism

Once again, those countries, and pretty much all of Africa, are ravaged by war, frequent government changes, epidemics, lack of trade, healthcare, schooling and knowledge. There is nothing there for anyone, so how would communism make those naitons any wealthier?

 

If you want to talk about capitalism, how about America? Capitalism works decently enough for us...

 

Pretty much what I said earlier but does he feckin listen? Nope.

I'm outta here.

Enjoy

 

Me too. Watch this guy's threads wither and die.

 

You see? It doesn't "work".


And in "America", there are lots, of lots of poor people. Ask them if capitalism works well. Yes, I've been there. People begging for money everywhere.






Capitalism might "work" for certain people in the US, and perhaps alright for the majority of Western Europeans, but it sure doesn't work well for the majority of the people in the world. Can we agree on that?

There is enough in this world for everyone. This has been proven over and over. The problem is the economic gap between people.

 

Another great example of capitalism would be Japan... They seem to be doing quite well... And as far as Africa and such, they likely wouldn't be doing well regardless of their economic system...

 

POVERTY, INEQUALITY &
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

Poverty

Although poverty has been dramatically reduced in many parts of the world, a quarter of the world's people remain in severe poverty. In a global economy of $25 trillion, this is a scandal - reflecting shameful inequalities and inexcusable failures of national and international policy.

UNDP Human Development Report 1997

Half the world's people live on less than $2 a day.

World Bank, "Global Poverty Measures 1987-1998 and Projections for the Future," 1999.

1.2 billion people live on less than $1 per day.

World Bank, "Global Poverty Measures 1987-1998 and Projections for the Future," 1999.

Together, South Asia, East Asia and South-East Asia and the Pacific have more than 950 million of the 1.3 billion people who are income-poor.
UNDP Human Development Report 1997



Women and Poverty

Millions of women in developing countries live in poverty. The feminization of poverty is a growing phenomenon. Women are still the poorest of the world's poor, representing 70 percent of the 1.3 billion people who live in absolute poverty. When nearly 900 million women have incomes of less than $1 a day, the association between gender inequality and poverty remains a harrowing reality.

UNIFEM, Strengthening Women's Economic Capacity

Women work two-thirds of the world's working hours, produce half of the world's food, and yet earn only 10% of the world's income and own less than 1% of the world's property.

World Development Indicators, 1997, Womankind Worldwide



Education

Today, there are still 125 million children who never attend school. Another 150 million children of primary age start school, but drop out before they can read or write. Sixteen countries in sub-Saharan Africa (with almost half of Africa’s 6-11 year-olds) have suffered a decline in enrolment rates. Today, sub-Saharan Africa accounts for one-third of the total out-of-school population. On current trends, it will account for three-quarters of the total in 2015.
One in four adults in the developing world – 872 million people – is illiterate, and the numbers are growing.

Global inequalities in the provision of education are enormous. Today, a child in Mozambique can expect to go to school for two to three years, with luck. A five-year-old European or North American child can expect to spend 17 years in formal education.

Girls account for two-thirds of the children not in school. Despite government commitments to close the gender gap, it is widening in many countries. For example, Ethiopia has one of the lowest rates of enrolment in the world, and one of the largest gender gaps. Fewer than one-third of 6-11 year old boys and one-tenth of girls are in school. In many schools in the developing world, the treatment of girls is tantamount to a system of apartheid.

 

Debt Crisis

The debt burden is the biggest single barrier to development in the Third World, the most powerful tool that western nations use to keep whole countries in bondage.

It is estimated that the Third World pays the developed North nine times more in debt repayments than they receive in aid. Africa alone spends four times more on repaying its debts than it spends on health care.

DebtChannel.org - OneWorld.net - Beginner's guide to debt

Structural Adjustment Programs, or SAPs, have particularly affected the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, whose economies are already the poorest in the world.

SAPs consist of measures designed to help a country repay its debts by earning more hard currency - increasing exports and decreasing imports. In a few countries SAPs appear to have had some good effect; in most they have worsened the economic situation. In all countries applying SAPs, the poor have been hit the hardest.

Jubilee USA Network - A Beginner's Guide to the Debt Crisis

In 1997 the foreign debts of ‘developing’ countries were more than two trillion (million million) US dollars and still growing. The result is a debt of $400 for every man, woman and child in the developing world – where average income in the very poorest countries is less than a dollar a day.

New Internationalist - Issue 312 "Debt"



Inequality

“The assets of the 200 richest people in 1998 were more than the total annual income of 41% of the world’s people.

UNDP Human Development Report 1999

Three families – Bill Gates, the Sultan of Brunei and the Walton family – have a combined wealth of some $135 billion. Their value equal the annual income of 600 million people living in the world’s poorest countries.

World Development Movement. WDM in Action, Winter 1999, Rebecca McQullan (article)


Global Inequality - Inequality between countries

The richest 20% of the world population now receives 150 times the income of the poorest 20%.

UNDP Human Development Report 1992

The richest one-fifth of the world:
• Consume 45% of all meat and fish, the poorest fifth 5%.
• Consume 58% of total energy, the poorest fifth less than 4%.
• Have 74% of all telephone lines, the poorest fifth 1.5%.
• Consume 84% of all paper, the poorest fifth 1.1%.
• Own 87% of the world’s vehicle fleet, the poorest fifth less than 1%.

UNDP Human Development Report 1998

The richest 20% of the population now receives 150 times the income of the poorest 20%.
UNDP Human Development Report 1992

The bottom line for poverty and incomes: The share of the poorest 20% of the world's people in global income now stands at a miserable 1.1%, down from 1.4% in 1991 and 2.3% in 1960. It continues to shrink. And the ratio of the income of the top 20% to that of the poorest 20% rose from 30 to 1 in 1960, to 61 to 1 in 1991 - and to a startling new high of 78 to 1 in 1994.
UNDP Human Development Report 1997

The income gap between the richest fifth of the world's people and the poorest fifth, measured by average national income per head, increased from 30 to one in 1960, to 74 to one in 1997.
Human Development Report, United Nations Development Program, 1999.


Inequality within countries

Within nations, the income gap has been growing as well. Russia now has the world's greatest inequality, with the richest 20% having 11 times the income of the bottom 20%. Income inequalities have also grown dramatically in China, Indonesia, Thailand, other East and South-East Asian countries, and in the industrialized countries, especially Sweden, Britain, and the United States.

"The State of the World," Stephen R. Shalom

The richest 1 percent of Americans earned as much after taxes as the poorest 100 million; in 1977 the top 1 percent only (!) had as much as the bottom 49 million. The poorest 20 percent are making less today in real terms (adjusting for inflation) than they were in 1977.

"The State of the World," Stephen R. Shalom, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities



Food & Hunger

826 million people remained undernourished in 1996-98

UN Food and Agriculture Organization - State of Food Insecurity in the World 2000

Hunger continues to plague an estimated 793 million people around the world, including 31 million in the U.S. Hunger kills. Every day, 24,000 people die from hunger and other preventable causes. Nearly 160 million children are malnourished worldwide.
Oxfam America - Hunger Fact Sheet

Almost 800 million people—about one-sixth of the population of the world's developing nations—are malnourished. 200 million of them are children.

Bread for the World (Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations)

 

Health

880 million people lack access to basic healthcare, and 1.3 billion lack access to safe drinking water. 17 million people die each year from curable diseases, including diarrhea, malaria and tuberculosis. 5 million of these people die due to water contamination.
Oxfam America - Fact Sheet

Each day in the developing world, 30,500 children die from preventable diseases such as diarrhea, acute respiratory infections or malaria. Malnutrition is associated with over half of those deaths.

Bread for the World (UNICEF, World Health Organization)



http://www.worldrevolution.org/Projects/GlobalIssuesOverview/Development.htm

 

Sure, it might work okay for a regular person in Japan, Western Europe and the United States, perhaps a few more countries.


But the rest of the world? I think it's a clear no.

 

So? Do you think the rest of the world would be better off under communism? I doubt it would make a whole lot of difference really...

 

Again, why is communism always brought up? Make a thread about communism if you think it's so important. There are other alternatives to capitalism then communism.


Since communism has never existed in a modern society, I can't answer with 100 percent certainty, nor can anyone else. But I do know that socialism would have got rid of economic unequality which is killing thousands of people every day.

I just think we have to open our eyes. People in our part of the world are people who are not suffering from poverty, malnutrition, lack of clean water, but billions of people in this world do. Life in the rest of the world is not like it is in the United States or Western Europe.


These countries are exploiting the third world. If they won't cooperate, then the countries (especially the United States) go in and overthrow their goverment (jacobo arbenz, allende etc.) and replace it with a friendly government (pinochet, for example). It has continued in centuries, and it continue to happen, so that the wealthy can get evern more wealthy, while the people in the poor countries get even poorer.


It's how I see it. If you got any other view I respect that.

 

Anyone care if I chime in ?

 

I’ve carefully followed your threads attacking Capitalism, Communism.

First off, you can not blame the state of Russia on capitalism and in the next breath argue that the progress under communist Cuba can't be compared to the progress of a capitalist country without a sufficient explanation of why one influence should be counted and another discounted. A conflict is bound to arise in the eyes of anyone who understands that six pages of short posts isn’t a lot to read.

It only takes ten minutes to get through it. I almost laughed at this combination:

and

Conflict without justification, do you see it?

Second, in response to

I can only respond with a resounding

No real capitalist has ever claimed that our system of choice creates the optimal situation for everyone. Nor have we claimed that it should.

There is absolutely no reason why we should care.

That much will be true unless you can provide a good reason why we should think otherwise. Remember though, I don’t count personal based opinion on the matter as legitimate reason and neither should you. Else you would be forced to accept other opinions on the matter.
You are intolerant of other opinions, thus, you must have a legitimate reason why we should care. That legitimate argument has, for some reason or another, not been brought up in these six pages of discussion.

If this is a discussion of capitalism, then let us discuss capitalism.

Enough pussyfooting around. Give us something substantial.

 

What happened to communism?

I was kind of hoping for a response.

 

You grandiose idiot. The Bolsheviks caused the poverty with their stupid, irresponsible economics. Communism fell under it's own weight. Get a life. The world destroyed Communism and will smash it again if it ever arise.

 

ok people.
I reallt dont know whats worse, capitalism or communism. i think they're both equally stupid. Communism is inherintly flawed, it will never work outside of theory, its been proven time and time again. look at china: When Mao moved toward ideal, his nation fell apart. I dont even need to mention Stalin. But capitalism only works for the elite in the system(A.K.A. the U.S.A.). true capitalism would requier either the exact same wage per hour or some way to pay someone exactly fairly for work done, and that everybody sets out alone and pennyless at age 18. All those capitallist here need to realize that you wealth is A DIRECT RESALT OF SOMEONE ELSES POVERTY. you cant say no to that, it's how its suppose to be. so lets start thinking about socialism. It kind of works like robin hood, giving everybody a fair shake. its late and to tiredto explain it all, so do your self a favor and type in 'socialism' at google.com G'night

 

Nothing could be further from the truth. Even the poorest Americans have much better standards of living than your average North Korean or Chinaman.

Capitalism DOES allow for everyone to be paid exactly fairly for the work they do, by allowing COMPETITION. If you don't think you're being paid fairly, find a job somewhere else that pays better.

Ah, the cry of the socialist...and it's based on a thoroughly debunked misconception of economics as a zero-sum game. I have news for you, friend: Economics is NOT a zero-sum game. Wealth is CREATED. You can't view every transaction as having a winner and a loser. The world as a whole gets wealthier under capitalism.

 

False, it wasn't till unions that are communist in nature before people started getting fair wages.

False, else there would be no people homeless or starving. Production for food and housing stops WAY before demand is ever meet and switched to something else due to Capitalism being a model of scaricity. Ivan Illch pointed this out with the captialist invention of the automobile. Before most people in cities walk,biked and took public transit to get around this led to mobility being at the hands of even the poorest of people, workers didn't have to spend much of their wages on trasportation and cities transportation budges were a tiny fraction due the efficency of walking, biking and public transit on infrastructure compaired to the automoblie.

Thus capitalism had brought pollution, urban sprawl, poverty due to not have a DEMOCRATIC economy, it is impossible for everyone on Earth to have the live style of the average american yuppie since there just isn't enough resources thus a fair system would just remove the yuppie life style and go with one that is substainable for all 6 billion humans on Earth.

 

well last i look around cuba is still comunist, and becouse of castro direct orders lots of cubans,africans,and south & central americans have die "all combine in the millions" and now Chavez in Venezuela wants to copy cat Fidel.