Socialism is what saved America.

If you actually think about it, capitalism, the ideology so loved by americans brought the country on the brink of collapse. And by socialist means, that is intervention of the government and regulation on certain aspects such as the market, allowed the U.S. government to actually purchase banks and save the economy.

 

Our economy is saved now? Wow this is news to me......from my point of view we are headed in a downward spiral moving exponentially faster and getting closer to our collapse every day. But as long as you say were saved.......

 

we're in a recovery kind of like how gas prices are coming down: better than yesterday, but far worse than a month ago.

 

The corporations are doing great, their CEO's are doing great. The rest of us are being turned into a new type of bottom class, and discredited because we're part of that class.

And "individual" is laughin' all the way to the bank.

 

They want you to constantly be on the edge of your seat. Current down slopes and up swings are what they use to distract you from the bigger picture. If you look at the wide scheme of things, the gradual decline anyway...its very present, and as of late its getting worse than ever. Both in its insecurity and the frequency of these 'recessions'.

This economy has been in an insecure decline since the Regan administration. People could argue that it started as far back as Nixon, but I wont go there. Once he 'turned the bulls loose' on the average American population, it was game over. The economy is about perspective, yours not any other persons. If you think its bad, it probably is. It won't get any better or worse based on an opinion, so the matter is trivial. But if shit hits the fan we as the 'lower class' bear a lot of that burden. Things they fuck up, that we have to deal with. Ain't it great? Been going on for years.

And as for socialism, the only part of that I've witnessed personally is universal health care. They treat us folks under 21 quite well. I don't have one complaint about a bit of socialism seeping the cracks here and there. Like you said it seems to do some good.

 

socialist policies brought us out of the great depression. I thought that was what the OP was referring to.

I don't think any of the bullshit policies that supposedly brought us from the brink of collapse recently helped us, and most of those could not be considered socialism if the purpose of socialism is to help the people. Purchasing the auto industry and giving banks a massive bail out so that the rich can get richer is not the kind of socialism I would like to see.

The government should have let the banks fail. No one had to suffer any consequences from what happened recently, and therefore no positive changes will be made.

 

HAHAHA exactly...you know it's bad when you pull into a gas station and think to yourself "wow 3.50 a gallon that's a deal! Better fill up!".

 

Fo'sho.

socialism would be bailing out the PEOPLE, either by paying the banks to not fuck them, or pardoning them for defaulting on their houses. Taking peoples houses but saving the bank from failing while it takes the houses is NOT socialism.

 

I know I should care more about politics... but I don't...

so in my over exaggerated thoughts I feel like we should move on to a new "ism" and call it truthism or fuckism or something where people will recognize and over throw this fucking insane government we have right now and do whats right and most important like legalizing marijuana & co. to pay our mind boggling debt we have towards other countries and such, instead of having a bunch of fucking morons sitting around doing nothing but damage every fucking day.

just an lucid opinion of mine...

 

The US economy is headed down the toilet, aided by the government, which is a subsidiary of big business.

 

I like the way you think

I hate the current state of our government and I am glad to see that many other people here are of the same opinion.

I would love to see the legalization of marijuana. Before Obama, back when the economy was decent and I didn't pay attention to politics, I used to get into heated debates over legalization. That is what originally drew me to these forums. Unfortunately, whoever I vote for for president will definitely be a Republican (Hopefully Herman Cain) and will never legalize it. But I think the illegal immigration issue, the economy and health care and stuff like that is much more important than weed. And only a true conservative can fix the destruction wrought upon this country by the liberals.

Another thing that I think we need to stop is this ridiculous corporatism. Obama is a corporatist, as was Bush. I imagine Clinton was as well, but I wasn't paying attention back then. This shows the hypocrisy of the left, to me. They want to tax the rich, but then they really help out the major corporations. So the people that get screwed are the small business owners. The kinda rich get screwed. Also, the liberal looney left is screwing the poor people because all the left cares about is power. They don't care a good god damn about us little people. But on the other hand, true conservatives would put into place a government that gets the fuck out of the way and lets little businesses do their thing, and lets big businesses do their thing, but does not help anybody, or hinder anybody. The Big businesses have lots of money, so the current government tries to be friends with them so they can get campaign contributions. Obama says he wants to take care of the poor, but he does not care shit for the poor, the elderly, the sick or anyone else, but the super rich who will be able to donate millions towards his goal of raising a billion dollars for his 2012 campaign. He knows he has to raise a billion dollars because he knows he is going to get creamed.

Obama is a complete failure and nothing he has done deserves congratulations. I swear the only two good things he has ever done in his life are two cute little girls named Malia Ann and Natasha.

 

government IS a business, run by mercenaries under lex mercatoria...so let them do what want with it...

 

There is nothing wrong with lex mercatoria, if the government will let the free market do it's work. Unfortunately, the government meddles with the economy and messes everything up. We need to stop the corporatism like we had under Bush and we now have under Obama. I guess you can call them mercenaries, but I definitely agree with the idea of the profit motive. So long as a company is not breaking any laws, the government should back up, deregulate and let people work. Profit is a good thing, the more profit the better.

 

working, running a business, and participation in a company is a privilege and a franchise not a right...the government is merely another company exercising admiralty for the benefit of the creditors...

 

I don't put money in banks, the best thing one can do with money is to turn it into something which has real value as quickly as possible, and not be left holding a lot of worthless paper in the rapidly approaching future.

 

^I have to call bullshit on the "let the free market do its work" comment.

The so called 'free market' is not a self-regulating, benevolent, omnipotent, sentient entity.

It's a fucking MARKET

So put your bullshit on the crops cuz I'm not gonna trust the MARKET to just 'do its thing'

Idiocy and Complacency are not good policy.

And the profit motive ignores quality, sustainability, and ethics so all it's really good for is burning through resources inefficiently to produce an excess of low-quality waste.

Your great-grandchildren will wonder why people were ever ignorant enough to support such destructive and inefficient business practices.

 

Also most of your (Fawkes) first post is just false, but I don't have the patience to get into it.
Someone with a keyboard can do that.

 

That's because Gold is more than reaped from appropriate property claim and investment. As more people seem to regard commonwealth as Gold physically present for the justification of the social Right to defend oneself irrevocably to everybody's and anybody's even distorted understanding for Human Nature.


And then there is the positive resource for energy in the community development. Wind turbines are not like the old principled Oil. We struggle for the abundance of government cheating the citizen out of His Gold.

 

So, what, mate? The government? Why on earth do people trust the government considering all it's failures. Government did not make America great, Americans made America great. The reason America is great is because government use to not meddle. That's the free market, son.

Tell me, what is a "self-regulating, benevolent, omnipotent, sentient entity"? You can't, mate, doesn't exist. The government regulates businesses, right? Who regulates government? NOBODY!! And that is why we have such a problem. There are all these crazy regulations that really hamper businesses. I am tired of hearing how the democrats are the party of the working man. BULLSHIT!!!! The democrats are killing small businesses with their regulations. Regulations weigh much harder on small businesses than on big businesses, because big businesses have lawyers, accountants and other professionals who work full-time on compliance with government regulations. Meanwhile the painter who has 6 employees is getting killed by government regulations, because he has to figure out how to do it himself or pay extra. Then that puts his little business at risk of going out of business, which means more business for the big business.

And government likes big business, both Dems and Reps, like big businesses because they make big campaign contributions.

As for the other three adjectives; This administration is anything but benevolent, they are a bunch of heartless assholes that don't give a crap about you or me or any other little American. This Administration IS omnipotent, and that is a bad thing. And they are sentient. They can smell success and then go seek it out and destroy it. Unless those who are successful vote along the party lines and make big donations.

So, who do you trust, Tuesday, the government? I'm calling bullshit on that one, my friend. I DO trust the market to do it's thing, you know why? Because the de-regulated free market delivers the best, highest quality, most innovative, products and services at the best value. The profit motive ignores quality, what? I don't even know how to respond to that, that doesn't even make any sense. If a company makes a product with crap quality, then they don't make a profit. Unless of course they have friends in the democrat party, then they get handouts and favors.

About ethics, you have a point there. Often it is cheaper to ignore ethics. But that is why we have laws. If something is unethical it's probably illegal. Put them in jail. A couple of days ago I was watching the video of McCartney on www.meat.org and I gotta admit, that shit ain't right. The thing is, that ain't gonna stop me from eating meat. That's going to get me to support the Humane Farming Association, hfa.org. I think small farm meat tastes better than factory meat anyways.

Also, I trust the free market because I don't need someone to hold my hand and make sure I'm not getting screwed. Americans take care of themselves. There are some regulations that are necessary, but right now we have way too many.

Maybe what we need to do is reform the process so that companies that do commit crimes, dump waste, manufacture dangerous products knowingly, etc. can be more easily prosecuted. I also get pissed off when I see companies get tiny punishments because of their expensive lawyers when they dump a bunch of waste that gives a bunch of kids cancer. Or whatever. Remember A Civil Action with Travolta? No one supports the action of companies like that, but massive EPA regulations that strangle companies are not the answer

 

I tend to agree with Fawkes, and Socialism has never saved anything, including America which is currently spending beyond its' debt ceiling without raising it by essentially spending IOUs as all money which comes in is spent and none placed in a lock box for future commitments like pensions, social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment benefits, etc., etc., etc.

Sure we need laws and some regulations, but we have so many today that no one person nor any large group of persons has a grasp of what they all are. The free market along with competition provides the best means of market regulation. Profit, whether it be in the form money, recognition, admiration, or something else is the primary motivation for most every human endeavor. Charity, especially when done anonymously is about the only thing I could call 'not for profit'. And Socialism is not a form of charity, but instead a redistributive form of government which takes from some, with or without their consent, and gives to others.

Just looking at the history of the Social Security and Medicare should obviate how flawed and unsustainable the Cost Benefit Analysis done by government can be, recognizing as fact that the primary attention is on the immediate return, which can often be simply getting elected or re-elected. Costs, related to deficit spending must eventually be accounted for by some generation, and most all governments today simply are putting off until tomorrow what should be attended to today. The longer people receive something for free, the harder it becomes to accept giving it up, which eventually happens forcefully.