Communism is genocide

Hello everyone

I would like to direct your attention to the following webpage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_genocide

A webpage was created on the popular Wikipedia website about how communism is genocide. I personally was shocked when I saw this page. I did some investigating, and apparently someone tried to have it deleted, but certain people wanting to have their own point of view had it kept.

So does communism really cause genocide? This seems like an awefully ignorant thing.

 

sure Communism is genocide. exactly like Christianism. This is cheating with reason. So, since the church promoted the massacre of millions of jews, 'witches', heretic thinkers ; because it blessed many wars and crusades where soldiers were sent to massacre the unbelievers in the name of Christ; because in short the churches warped the word of Jesus to bend faith to their own advantage, can we take a random christian guy from the street and call him war monger and blood-thirsty assassin ?
also, everyone who isn't a total dead brainer can clearly see how many people killed and kills every single day the system we're in. look at the perpetual war we are going into, look at the tragedy of africa, consider the mass of people killed just by the U.S.A., the most dangerous monster around, in all the robbery wars their waged, think a little to all the victims of sheer selfishness and greed of big tycoons and corporations,
then think again and who is without sin cast the first stone, or shut the fuck up.
and talking about the class struggle , class struggle just means this: class. struggle. of course it may become violent. revolutions usually imply violence , and revolutions are very often a good thing. go tell the french that they are bastards who killed their good king, then run before they grab you. so what ? why the people should not slay and destroy all of his enemies without mercy ? why not making manure out of people who exploits his fellow men and women like beasts?
genocide means destroying an entire race on the basis of the false assumptions that 1) human races exist (scientifical falsification) 2) there are races superior to others and even evil races that neeed to be wiped out (blasphemy) . Sorry little fascist jerks, it is your tradition along with racism, not ours. in this forums you can find the most colorful - and contraddictory - accuses against this ghost that is communism nowadays. you will find an idiot who sees a Jew conspiracy behind the marxist thought, and other morons who say that communism is antisemite... if you want to talk crap at least dont get into dead-end contradictions. it is an old double-face lie. sometimes communist are jews; other times they are... antisemites like the nazist . just like the Jews that in fascist and nazi propaganda were exhibited like communists or...U.S. capitalists , but always enemies of the 'Great germany' . how hilarious communism today poises no longer any threat to the capitalistic word, still there are dipshits so much scared and frightened by it who do their best attempts to try and erase the very idea from the spectre of thinkable thoughts. they are trying to soil the very name of communism to prevent people from taking it into consideration.

in brief this is sowing prejudice . prejudice is good because it allows to neutralize a good idea before it can grab hold of people's hearts and minds. also it is really weird that most people has an idea of communism totally bogus, like that in communism there is no place for private property or that in communism it is 'mandatory to be all the same' which are obvious nonsenses. all these lies to defend the 'right' of a microscopic but enormously wealthy minority of men and women to own all the means of production.

only if the people owns ALL THE CAPITALS OF THE NATION (not comprehensive of private homes, cars, gardens, razors, beds, pens, telephones, computers, clothes, armchairs, toilet scrubs etc, and all the things those evil imaginary communists want to pry from your hands, which are not 'means of production' or at least not economically relevant ones) people can really be sovereign . If you allow a private citizen to own a plant, or a large farm and ultimately to own the lives of his waged workers, this man has more private power and consequently more actual rights than his workers. and freedom and equality die at this point. you all think to be free but in fact many of your freedoms end where the greed of a rich businessman starts, and it is perpetually growing.


sorry enemies: you can't kill an idea, neither you can permanently stain it. and everything is bound to come back forever.

 

There should be a page for Capitalist Slavery then...makes much more sense...and equating Communists with Nazi genocides is truly hilarious.

 

WTF is Christianism?

I didn't do a thorough read, but I believe that the article is saying the Communism has a consistent history of genocide, and not that it leads to genocide.

I believe Communism could definately work. But it usually leads to corruption, and here's why.

Capitalist philosophy is built from the ground up. Therefore the government's role is very minimal at best initially, and typically grows as a nation evolves in technological development and size. Mayors can't force resource allocation, institute laws, or make any major decisions without the consent of the people.

Really in my eyes we have never had a true Communist nation. We've had takeover's by political parties called the Communists but they never truly adhered to the principles. Historically a Communist nation starts off with central planning. At the VERY beginning the lower levels of society hand over complete trust to the man in his ivory tower. Obviously it is much easier for this type of institution to become corrupt.

Ideologically there would be a highly developed system in which workers manage industries. Clearly this has never been the case and I don't believe that any strong examples could be cited proving that such a system had evolved under the Communist system.

So don't believe that any one system leads to genocide or total world government. It's simply about corruption, greed, power, and hatred.

 

what about nazism and fascism then? the core ideology of nazism prescribes genocide for the jew and just about any other 'inferior human race'. nationalism also can lead to this, look at 'ethnical cleansing' in ex jugo. communism never advocated genocide and it could not since differences among human varieties and populations are not relevant to marxism-leninism . communists are internationalist or at least they were meant to believe in it before stalinism. in the USSR during the twenties and thirties there was a strong campaign against traditional antisemitism (remember pogroms?) that was regarded as a vile, unreasonable wreck of middle age obscurantism.

causing by incompetence or criminal carelessness a famine is mas murder, not 'genocide'. deporting farmers unwilling to comply to the orders of the cremlin was definitely a crime against humanity but not 'genocide'. genocide is more that mass murder, and lies on a higher plan of monstruosness. it means stating that an entire population omogeneous by skin, language or religion are not allowed to live. and if it is just about killing, everyone has his share of blood on his hands, that is no fucking communist peculiarity. just to refresh your memory viet nam war caused a whooping 1,177,446 Vietnamese casualties , spoiled land, mines lying around, chemical contamination, malformed children and hell, not bad for the paladins of justice and truth , and since it was white men killing yellow men it is much closer to the concept of genocide than soviet mass murders. more recently Iraq body count scores 1,339,711 Iraqi casualties , even better in a shorter time... that's progress.


seriously guys, adding the abu ghraib and guantanamo stuff and all the other nice things you did, the big question that so far did not receive a satisfactory answer is...
where the fuck you yankees find the audacity to throw stones at the others ?

you better remove that pole in your eye before pointing fingers.

if then someone is still willing to cheat with words, go on, i made my point clear .

 

The truth is communism fails because we let someone take power who is doomed to become corrupt and take over and stay in control forever,this happens with a great many revolutions. However communism is no more of a failure then capitialism.Whil people starve in communist Korea people also starve in capitialist Africa.

 

the basis and the balance of this thread is pretty much made up of ignorance.
there are more capitalist regime genocides than communist regime triggered ones.

 

Communism works if you don't give power to anyone, everyone just has to realize what it means to network and work.

The only issue is that certain types of people crave power, and it has nothing to do with race, it is more a genetic flaw. Hate is the devil and the devil knows how to commune and call it something it isn't (i.e. superiority).

 

Communism isn't necessarily genocide. Although the communism we've seen in the world was monstrously retarded.

What was it that Sontag chick said? "Communism is fascism with a human face."

Totally centralized power doesn't work because it's slow, stupid, and inefficient. It's like a corporate monopoly in an industry, only the industry is a country and the corporation has a whole lot of guns. That shit don't work.

 

point of this thread: people are dumb.

that, and all monetary systems suck.

so i didnt learn anything by this thread

 

there are genocides on both sides of the fence. hilter was a staunch anti-communist. communists and socialists made up a good bulk of the fascist resistance in europe during ww2. communism doesnt lead to genocide anymore than capitalism does. if anything absolutist ideologies in there many forms lead to genocide.

 

Fuckin damn right.

 

thank you

 

^^^ It's the truth though. I catch shit from some of my fellow leftists when I say capitalism isn't in and of itself an evil thing. I like what David Simon said about capitalism(*paraphrase) -- "It's a wonderful tool to have in our toolbox." Which implies that we should also have other tools in our toolbox, like a bit of socialism.

Then I catch shit from right wingers who think any socialization is pure friggin evil (at least until they lose their health insurance, in which case they become Trotsky clones in about 5 minutes).

What's wrong with recognizing a gray area, ya know what I mean? And by that I don't mean becoming a so-called "moderate", at least by US standards, which is a pleasant euphemism for being center-right.

To me, a real moderate would advocate things like socialized healthcare, decent public housing, unionism for both skilled and unskilled workers, but wouldn't seek to abolish every instance of private control in the means for production.

Basically, what's wrong with enjoying social justice and brand name sneakers? :cheers2:

 

ya, most people i meet who are die hard communist or capitalist are tards. i think we should have socialized medicine, just like we have socialized police and fire departments (imagine if the quality of your police protection was detirmined by what insurance policy you could afford), but on the other hand i dont think the entire private sector needs to be nationalized.

i know what you mean about some liberals being dogmatically anti-capitalist, i kind of use to be like that, but i dont think they are as common as the dogmatic anti-communists who decry any attempt at social reform as 'socialism' which will inevitably lead to 'communism' and then tyrannical government control, the mcarthyites that believe in the mythical utopia land before the 1920's when business was free of gov. regulation. the ones who believe welfare mothers are the cause of our debt crisis and not the tax cuts givin to uber rich. i was listening to reagan give a speech where he said (he was quoting one of his friends) "i'd rather my children die now believing in god, then die in the future under communism not believing in god". i hate how right wingers use the words darwinism, communism, atheism, and evil as if the words were interchangable, when they have nothing to do with each other, and you can have any one of them without the other three.

the paranoid conspiracy garbage spewed by fanatics of all stripes from hitler to bin laden has been so well documented, it is in my opinion what causes genocides, people believe that they must take other peoples rights in order to protect their own.

regardless of what economic policies a country follows i think the best way for us to avoid further genocides is for all countries to adopt and actually follow the international bill of human rights as adopted by the united nations which includes the universal declaration of human rights, the international covenent on economic social and cultural rights, and the international covenent on civil and political rights. these cover several issues not addressed in the US constitution (like the right to not be forced into marrige, the right to refuse to kill people), i dont see how anyone could find it disagreeable. it even has a clause on the right to own property.(for all you anti-communists)

the countries that adopted this declaration need to stop saying one thing and doing another. their like a salesman from the 80'd with a mullet who wants to be business up front but party in the back- it doesnt work- youve gotta be all business if your gonna sell anything, and if you wanna be all party your not going to sell anything and wont have money to party with anyways, so just cut the damn shit off.

 

and im not saying reagans conspiracy garbage was in the same league as hitlers but thats probably why the genocides were not as thourough and complete as hitlers, that and lack of national support.

 

doesn't the "geno" in genocide mean anything anymore?

 

what are you trying to say? that the word is being overused? or that communism cant be genocide because the definition does not apply to political groups?

 

i'm tired of words being redefined

if you want to talk about the elimination of political groups, fine

but that is not genocide

as far as communism goes, it is also not "genocide" [or whatever]

it is a political theory that in practice would be quite equitable, but that in practice has lent itself to usurpage by sociopaths

while stalin murderously persecuted ethnic minorities, as did mao to a slightly lesser degree, these are not tenets of communism

 

if your saying that reagans contra wars shouldnt count as genocide i would argue to the contrary, while the goal was the suppression of political opposition, over 80% of the victims were mayan indians, and whole mayan villages were destroyed and their inhabitants slaughtered just because they were indian. also a quarter of the victims were women and children.