Wikileak: US Trade War on Europe Over GM Crops

in defeat, i will pretty much admit that the thing i like least about gmo is that it has the potential to put control of a significant portion of the world's food supply into the hands of corporations - monsanto and dupont, who else?

[profits, not people]

as far as frankenstein goes, very little they have done so far has been much different than what mother nature is capable of

hippies - it's still possible to eat local and eat organic, eat cornless and soyless - and it most likely always will be

[let the walmartians sort themselves out]

 

If you check the citations and the links in my previous posts you will see there is a debate going on.
Obviously Monsanto will say everything is fine.
Notice I've hardly used them as a source for information.
The one time I have you can see it isn't to do with anything other than the No. of clients they have.

The link between cancer and smoking has been investigated since the turn of the century.
In the 20.s a German theorised a link.
In the 50.s a British MP stood up in House of Commons and said he had appreciated there was a link between smoking and cancer.
He argued for a nationwide anti-smoking campaign.
In the 50's American tobacco firms launched a campaign to suggest there wasn't a link.

So, the one thing I can agree on is that US companies are reluctant to suggest anything is wrong.
The one thing you have to admit is others are not.

I would not use information garnered from Monsanto to make any point about GM safety.
You have to acknowledge there are other governmental and independent studies unrelated to Monsanto...they say that GM isn't the disaster to humanity you are shouting from the roof-tops.

So, yes, you can say "they" want to keep certain information private, but the fact is other entities are studying the effects too.
It's the same as with smoking.
It isn't true that governments always sit on negative information and then suddenly have to release it when there are countless deaths associated with one thing or another.
The Truth is, there have been constant investigations into the majority of issue in the world.
At some point you will have to acknowledge a truth, the same as you did with climate change.
You can't ignore all the facts forever.

 

GM is being used through out the world.
OK, ignore anything you hear from Monsanto or "America".
All I am saying is that those two entities are not the only two you can gain information from.
You keep relying on the ignorance and reluctance of America and Monsanto.
If you just say: "Well all governments are corrupt and in the service of big business"...then our conversation might as well end.

 

GM cannabis..
The US-based Monsanto corporation became infamous last year when the public discovered that the huge pharmaceutical company was responsible for producing Agent Orange during the Vietnam war, for producing and selling Roundup to be sprayed on South American villages, for experimenting with dangerous genetically modified foods, and ? most recently ? for creating the dreaded "terminator" seed.
Terminator seeds are genetically engineered to produce a plant that will not produce viable seed, meaning that growers would be forced to go back to Monsanto each year to buy more seed stock to replant. Governments and public alike became wary of the concept when it was discovered that the terminator seed could possibly cross the species barrier, possibly spreading infertility among the plant kingdom like a disease.

 

... I think I woke up in bizzaro world.
We are all doomed.

 

This thread is a good example of how it works in the good old USA.

Person 1) Yes it is...
Person 2) No it's not...

Person 3) Ok.. governments are assholes. Let's all go back to doing nothing.

And the facists pigs just keep on doing what they were doing because no one can be bothered unite and push the issue a little bit further.

oh and by the way.
Mussolini, the defacto father of the term Facism, made it clear that underlying basis of facism is actually "corporatism". And the United States is the most corporate nation in the world.

So welcome to the reality America. You're the world's first facist super power.

 

I'm English.

 

This pretty well sums it up here. The reasons that people don't unite against the oppressors are varied... some do not recognize the government for what it is- though many do but feel powerless to do anything about it. Most attitudes are influenced by an information structure (media, newspapers, etc.) that ensures we're suspicious of one another and unlikely to unite in support of our neighbors. Worse, the average American seems more interested in the latest "reality" television series than with what their government is up to.

Your characterization of the United States as a corporate nation is spot on. the corporations pull the strings and the puppets who "govern" make legislation that helps to ensure profitability- often against the interests of the public. A case could be made against a number of congresses for racketeering if these criminals weren't so good at covering their tracks and offered cover by a cooperative news media that instead places higher premiums on professional athletes taking steroids than the thugs associated with the worlds most massive criminal syndicate.

Two things sustain this syndicate... power and money. Money is its life blood and power is its opium. If the people could cooperate with a general strike- effectively ceasing the money flow the beast could be choked off. The problem is that too many are deeply programmed into thinking they have too much to lose in a strike- and with the lack of grassroots cohesiveness they are correct within the context of an unmovable system... the thing is we have too much to lose NOT to do something but people don't seem to realize this. maybe they just don't want to- which empowers the profiteers who are looking to transform global agriculture into a mega sharecropping operation and are successfully pushing they puppets into making it law.

 

In this day and age...
The modern version of slavery is being a slave by consent.

And unfortunately,
For the few of us that want to live free. We are faced with the scary fact that we can not be free as long as a large enough portion of our society is content to rest in slavery. It's sad but the sheep need to be waken for others to be free.

Regardless of what you claim otherwise or how you justify your inactions. Until you get off your ass and throw a brick throw some politician's window. You're consenting to be a slave. And if you're willing to accept the government's compensation of a billion virtual friends on Facebook; then you should be really content being a slave.

 

Three people is society. There are no boogie men, nothing to be afraid of. Anyone can be free if they are willing to get off the materialistic tit they've come to be comfortable with.

Throwing bricks through politician's windows makes one a vandal not a free and valiant agent of change.

 

WOW!

What if some people just think you are full of ****?
I'm not saying you are or are not.
It just seems rather arrogant to dismiss those that don't see the world as you do.
Fair enough, tell the world what you wish to do.
But please don't be arrogant enough to presume all must agree with you and go along with you, and if they don't there is something wrong with them.
Have you ever entertained the notion you might be wrong?

Perhaps start a thread titled: what freedom means to me.

 

You're right... Throwing a brick through a window is way worst than

Poisoning our food sources.
Killing children in fake foriegn wars by the thousands.
Commiting medevial style torture.
Stealing our hard earned money through financial corruption and goverment bailouts
Putting survalience cameras in our bathrooms and debating rectal probes at airports.

This is NOT about materialism. It's about the right to be LEFT ALONE.

But since you have the answers;
You tell me where do I have to go in order to get away from this insanity and raise my family in peace and quiet ? I want some place that I won't have to worry about the "little things".

Like worring that our goverment is going to make vaccines for a fake flu manditory.

Or that the tin can of food I purchased to make dinner is not lined with Bisphenol A.

Or if my daughter has sex with a condom, the effects of Nonoxynol-9 can be cumulative and her vaginal linning is slowly being stripped away.

And we could literally sit here for the next month adding thousands of other problems to that list. The solution is not negationism telling people to live in the antartic. The solution is throwing a brick throw a window and saying, "stop this shit fuckers!" When governments stop listening, revolt is a fundamental right.

You know this entire "subjective" stand on just what is "right and wrong" and "what does freedom mean to you" is just a bunch of self-denile bullshit. We are born knowing the difference between right and wrong and we all know exactly what freedom is.

And if you don't know what freedom is or right from wrong. Then you're either watching too much television or are mentally handicapped or a sheep worrying only about his next meal or fuck.

I'll make it easy for everyone.
Freedom is the right to do whatever you want. As long as it does not infringe upon the freedom of someone else.

And knowing right from wrong is simple too. Don't hurt anyone, cause someone any loss and don't lie to get something your otherwise not entitled to have.

 

that right may no longer be desirable for a world of 6+ billion people

 

I agree. Within reason. You have to try and remain within the law too.
I have freedom. Granted, it isn't absolute. It is more than enough.
So do you I would presume.
If not, what are you prevented from doing (ignoring breaking the law)? What is "living free"? (given that we can both pretty much do what we please - within reason).
I have a strange feeling we will disagree what "freedom" is because your caveats, I imagine, are going to be different to mine.
Basically we agree, but I think on the details we won't.
But lets see...
That's why I suggested starting another thread (given we are going off-topic).

"For the few of us that want to live free. We are faced with the scary fact that we can not be free as long as a large enough portion of our society is content to rest in slavery."

This the main part I thought you were being slightly arrogant about.
If I, for e.g, didn't agree with your caveats regarding freedom, it seemed like you would say I would be "resting in slavery".
I just don't think you have any right to dictate what "freedom" is or tell me what you think I am if It isn't precisely the same as your POV.

I agree.

 

First you need to understand the differences between "LAWS" and "STATUES".

Real laws, the ones we all must obey are called "natural laws." And they do not infringe or otherwise encomber "Freedom", they ensure it. Natural Laws are self-evident and require no edict of state or be given the "force of law". They simply "are". They do not even need to be writen down. (Believe it or not, this is basic first year law school stuff.)

In your system, the British system, these laws are mirrored in "Common Law" and form the fondation of your system of judiciary.

Real laws/natural laws are
1) Do not harm anyone
2) Do not cause loss
3) Do not commit fraud.
And there are no others. That's it, just 3 simple laws.

Any other rule is called a statute. And trying to represent statutes as laws is fraud. And fraud is against the law. So if are accused of breaking a law and it does not fall in the jurisdiction of natural laws. Then the accusers are commiting fraud.

So in short,
I have to live within the LAW. But I can tell rules based on statutes to go fuck off. And I do regularly.

If Freedom is anything less than absolute.
Then it is no longer Freedom and can only be considered allowed privilages.

I'm not dictating jack shit. I'm telling you exactly what freedom is. There is no subjective nature to Freedom. That is a fucking lie you have been sold and you foolishly allowed yourself to believe.

Freedom is freedom. You can do whatever the fuck you want as long as you're not hurting anyone, causing loss or being fraudulent. So be a peaceful man that never breaks his word and you can't be touched.

 

Well you give me credit where it is not due because I never claimed that throwing a brick through a window was worse than any thing. I simply said it makes one a vandal not a free and valiant agent of change.

If you rise up violently you will be put down.

Your torrent of complaints are all about material discomfort.

 

Oh wow geez whizz. Being labled a "vandal" would mean we are all hooligans. Gee willigers and shucks. That would just be oh so alwful because it breaks all the nice things we learned watching Vegie Tails.

Tell you what. Why don't you try it. You would be amazed at how well it works. Because all you're doing is making sheep excuses.

All I can say is that if enough sheep wake up and band together and you all throw bricks through politician windows. Change will come. There are literally thousands of examples of this methodology working in the world. But only in the good old USA are people content to sit on their ass watching TV and collecting cyber friends on Facebook while the American Nazis make plans to reduce your daughters to baby making machines for the new empire.

They're going to put you down one way or another and they are profiting from it. So the choice is you're either going to let them kill you with one poisoned meal at a time. (with them monitoring you to make sure you're eating it.) Or your going to be brave and make a stand.

Give me a break. My washing machine is hooked up to a bicycle. I haven't purchased anything in 5 years and I furnished my home from dumpster diving. The only thing I have in my home that is a "material convience" is a P2 computer.

Apart from a few small things like clean food, the ability to love who I want without having aids propoganda shoved down my throat and a useful education for my daughter. I don't need or want much.

---------------------------- New Rant that explains my hostility below------------------

Just to make it clear why I'm angry about this food bullshit.
Let me say it's personal. I have a goat that my daugther and I not only milk daily for our source of milk. But it's also a loved pet. I tend to feed the little shaggy with food from our hothouse and in the nearby forest. About 3 weeks ago she got sick. Real sick and consequently because we didn't know about it right away my daughter got real sick.

The fuckers were spraying the forest and poisoned my goat and consequently my daughter with dioxin and dichlorophenoxyacetic acid.

The bastards are now taking away our ablity to go into the fucking woods and live in a mud hut.

So where the fuck do you go? Where do you draw the fucking line? If you can't motivate the sheep to stop cooling their testicles with a can of beer while watching TV and rise up? What other options do we have?

 

you are so much cooler than we are, please be kind to us poor, stupid "sheep"

i thought natural law was that if you throw a rock in the air it will eventually reverse course

"do not harm anyone", animals [including human animals] do that all the time just to stay alive, so i guess we're not very natural