This is hell no matter what you make it......

After some serious thinking and a few other things i have come to this conclusion:

No matter what at any given moment someone that doesn't deserve to suffer is suffering, starving kids prime example. The saying "this is heaven or this is hell" is true for some as an individual but not for us all as a whole, for heaven to truly exist then not one bit of suffering can be going on and this as i know it can only be achieved once we leave here, jmo. I had a dream awhile back where i was hanging out with a best friend of mine who had died many years ago. Anyhow in this dream we did exactly what we would have done had this been "reality". Once i woke up it was so strange....i just laid there thinking how real it all seemed and how alive my boy was in the dream and to this day i feel that we really hung out. this all brings me to the conclusion that when the body does pass on we will go into "dream mode" in other words were gunna get the same thing as we get when we sleep. We are born new everyday simply because we are not gauranteed to wake, if you were in a dream you would never know you didn't wake up...welcome to heaven, mo.
This i can honestly say seems like it would be "true heaven" just for the simple fact that everyone is alive and the dying is already done....were all the walking dead or the "walking dead into life" however were here to gather info and other things to take to the "dream world", cant "paint" a picture without "paint". I would think it would be wise to see and do as many things possible that this place (earth) has to offer... .. when i hear someone tell a story about a dream and it involves a job they don't like then i would think that is what your "after life" will consist of since that's what you "did" most in life. this is where we gather everything we would want to have in our mind before we pass.....i know many have been in there gardens in there dreams and gotten high in there dreams and its just as real until you wake up and realize you were sleepin or passed out, having sex in a dream is absolutely "real" or real enough to "get a nut". The inner self has nothing to hide....why would someone keep "heaven" a secret? to tell them they will go to hell if they don't listen, entirely my opinion nothing i have said is "how it is" only how it is in my head and eye, as i believe blind faith will leave you blind.....open the i! we have 2 temples on the side of our head, i believe one for "evil" and one for "good" and its on us as to what temple we choose to live in each day, mpo
Easy does it

 

we aint leaving, so forget it. your mind is still infantile, WISHING your desires could be fulfilled without effort on somebody's part. Grow up.

 

Who are you to say who does or doesn't deserve to suffer? You don't know what experiences such people might need to create in their lives. It isn't your place nor is it your purpose to see an end to suffering. It hasn't occurred to you that there may be a greater Good or Truth that is achieved through suffering?

And your idea that heaven is the absence of suffering, that is simply laughable. We have no way of knowing what heaven is or will be, unless we take steps to bring it about here and NOW.

So I say this to you, begin to take responsibility for your own existence, nobody can or will do this for you, it is for you and you alone.

I will leave you with some words from the dead.

"There is a road, no simple highway, between the dawn, and the dark of night, and if you go, no one may follow, that path is for your steps alone. You who choose to lead must follow, and if you fall, you fall alone. If you should stand then who's to guide you? If I knew the way, I would take you home."

 

just a person with ideas, beliefs and opinions..am i allowed to have that oh and real quick just to let you know....you have a real smart ass way of posting.....
second part of what you said makes no sense to me, sorry.....
im glad you got a laugh out of that.....lol
and that last part....again i have no idea what in the hell your talkin bout son
dont take the title so personal.

 

If you are open minded enough you should try either a hefty dose of 20x salvia divinorum or 60 mgs DMT and see if your view of the after life remains the same.

 

good posts, whoman

 

thank you porkstock for the kind words....hope your having a wonderful new year so far....

 

have you watched the movie "waking life"?

if so, have your views of the afterlife been influenced by it?

if not, you should watch it

 

"I'm not a Christian, but I won't diss 'em." - KRS-One

Not related, but it has been in my head :sunny:

 

Good post. I think it is hell, but still much of its a human imposed hell. A lot of problems in the world could be prevented if people were just more conscious of others. We live in a system where all our actions directly affect others and the world, but ego tends to obscure or ignore this reality. I think free will is most affective when you're more knowledgeable of the rest of reality beyond your specific vantage point and what that all entails. We all create our own hell and create hell for other people that have nothing to do with our actions. They're just in the line of fire. When someone binge drinks, drives and hits another person and kills them, they drag unsuspected people in their hell. The unsuspected folks aren't at fault, the baby who gets shot in a drive by isn't at fault, but someone did decide to be an egomaniac and not think of other people when pulling the trigger and getting behind the wheel drunk. Were in an interconnected system, and when you cause pain to others, you might not immediately feel it yourself, but you do add sorrow to the universe because someone is experiencing it, even if it isn't you. I think we can create a better world, and have done so in the past, by considering the disposition of others. I think intelligent people like Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, etc helped push us more in that direction as a species (and many more in less realized ways).

I think life is some sort of cleansing process for the universe. We go through this to purify and test our selves, so I totally identify with what you're saying. i think physical reality is leading up to something though. The legacy we leave behind contributes to some sort of project of the universe. I think all of evolution is a self directed process, and one of the driving pressures of it is to experience the universe in more dimensions in this particular plane of existence. Terrence Mckenna called it novelty. I think consciousness is primarily what's evolving, not matter, and the universe is seeking more more complex and novel forms of being. Existing as a field of primordial energy just wasn't as interesting for the universe as computers, cars, self awareness, religion, and the general human experience. Its just more interesting and exciting. I think every time the physical universe collapses or goes back to the blank slate, it seeks it all out again.

I really don't think the afterlife, whatever it may be is exactly like dreams though. It might be similar in some ways. I think its gonna be like that though. We'll be united with our love ones like droplets falling from the sky are united with the ocean they fall into. I think its beyond any human comprehension and is probably barely relatable to existence as a human.

 

is this heaven or hell? yes, it is.

 

Well actully if you think this is hell for you,than it is true,for me or for other
people it's heaven... We can't decide for others what's heaven and what's
hell...

 

I wouldn't know where to find any, but you're right by all accounts.

The question though is whether those DMT-inspired visions are real or perceived to be real. Same thing to the psychonaught of course, but not neceassrily proof there are other dimensions.

If there are other dimensions and DMT does reveal them, how do we know it reveals all of them? There will be gateways and realms beyond what any living human has experienced on halucinogenic drugs for sure. There will be no way of knowing if there is a hell or heaven beyond those portals at the very farthest reaches of what you have experienced on DMT.

Buddhists believe in the possibility of re-birth as hell beings, or as hungry ghosts. That's 'hell' in my book. So, if a religions thats 2500 years old, that is also non-theistic, reckons that hell is a conscious state of being beyond the grave then heck, it can exist surely?

 

Some Buddhists believe in spirits and chant their names. Some Buddhists believe that's all crap. Buddhism has as much diversity as any of the other religions that have broken down into a myriad of sects.

This thread has reminded me of one of my favorite Buddhist quip.

84th Problem

One afternoon a farmer who had heard that the Buddha was a wonderful teacher came to the Buddha seeking relief from his suffering. “I'm a farmer,” he said to the Buddha, “And I love farming. But last summer we had a drought and nearly starved, while this summer, we had too much rain and some of my crops did not do as well as I would have liked.”

The Buddha sat and listened to the farmer. “I have a wife, too. She's a great woman, a wonderful wife. But sometimes she can really nag me. And to tell you the truth, sometimes I get a little tired of her.” The Buddha continued to listen and smile, as the farmer continued. “I've got three kids. They're all really great. I'm really proud of them. But sometimes they don't listen to me and don't pay me the respect I deserve.”

It went on like this for awhile, and then when finished with his litany, the farmer waited for the Buddha to solve his problems.

“I can't help you,” said the Buddha. “What!” responded the farmer, “I've heard that you are a great master. How can you not help me?” “Well,” the Buddha replied, “First of all, everyone has problems. In fact, everyone's got about 83 problems. Of course, you may fix one now and then, but another one will pop up in it's place. If you think about it, everyone you know and all that you care for is subject to change — it's all impermanent. And you yourself are going to die someday. Now there's a problem.”

The farmer was red in the face. “What kind of teacher are you!? How is this supposed to help me?!” he retorted. “Well....perhaps I can help you with the 84th problem,” answered the Buddha. “What 84th problem?” asked the farmer.

“You don't want to have any problems.”

 

Hi, you're right of course about diveristy of views in religions.

The point I was making though is that the concept of hell is not unique to the western faiths.

If anything, there is growing 'evidence' of other dimensions and life in them through NDEs, DMT-trips, other halucinogens that occur naturally and quite possible, IF there are other dimensuions that are populated with conscious beings then there may be heavens and hells. Where we end up just might be determined by our conduct here.

I think thats the message in most belief systems: that we will be held to account. Now, that said, I have to go respond to an arsehole posting on my "eleveners" thread...

for which, apologies.

 

Didn't see this post until after I posted in the elevners thread. Sorry for joining in with the 'asshole' but them and opinions..what cha gonna do, eh?

I think what I may have wanted to address that day and opted for a different route was this:

"So, if a religions thats 2500 years old, that is also non-theistic, reckons that hell is a conscious state of being beyond the grave then heck, it can exist surely?"

No. That's false logic.



Overall:

I think that DMT et al, do have great potential as a tool for the mind, but there's so much pseudo-science and hyperbole that comes out surrounding it, that I can't help but balk at some of what it's major proponents spew.

I think the critical thought that needs to be kept in mind when neuronauting is that the mind is capable of so many delusions, what makes one think that the truths from a drug trip are any less capable of being delusions too? They may turn out to be valuable and I have experienced that they are but I also know that it was conscious chemical alteration of my mind and that comes with it's own perceptual problems.

I certainly don't begrudge people for neuronauting. I do it myself and have had gains for it. I hope people keep it up. All I ask is for folk to keep some critical thought in reserve to temper some of the miraculous experiences that come from hallucinating.

And we can hope, since they've reopend LSD for studies that we can start getting some real science to back us up.

One coffee and a few paragraphs later, I'm feeling much better.
Sorry Debt, if I jerked up your other thread. It was residual bluntness from another thread working it's way out. I usually don't post in threads where my true opinions would offend. :love: