Abusing welfare... yes or no?

That's what it all comes back to for me...

 

In court, I saw a young mother get sent to jail for food stamp fraud. Turns out her live in boyfriend was selling scrap metal that she didn't claim as income. Someone had to have narked on her. It's class warfare folks. The poor fighting against each other. Judges being an instrument of the wealthy.

 

here..if a worker suspects that you are cheating it is really easy for them to cut you off..even if you appeal they just keep making you come to meetings and produce proof of rent etc...eventually they give up and get a job or stop cheating and stay within the rules.....there is a reason behind the name ''ontario works''

Ontario Works staff will talk with you about your situation and you can decide if you want to complete an application.
If you decide to complete an application, you will be given a time to meet with us. This meeting usually takes place at the Ontario Works office. If it is difficult for you to go to the Ontario Works office, the meeting can be held in your home or somewhere in your community.


You will need to bring certain documents to the meeting. When you make your appointment, Ontario Works staff will tell you what documents you need to bring. Here are some examples:

• proof of your Social Insurance Number
• Health Card
• proof of identity, such as your birth certificate
• recent bank statement for all your bank accounts
• copy of your mortgage or rental agreement
• Record of Employment and/or your most recent pay stubs
• copy of your Canada Child Tax Benefit statement (if you have children under 18 years of age)
• information about other money you may be receiving, such as a pension
• information about assets you may own, such as a Registered Retirement Savings Plan, and
• proof of immigration status, if required.

and that is just to sit down at a meeting... doesnt mean you qualify...i cannot stress how many safeguards are built into the system to 'disqualify' people

 

Responses like these are indicative of what's wrong with welfare systems and the view that other people (the government) owes us something. Walshes reponse is particularly alarming.

Of course it's Kista's business! It's the business of all of us! Where do you people think the money for welfare comes from? Good friends get involved in helping friends solve their problems, not stand by while they fall even more deeply into the morass of dependency.

 

kista is a peeler...do you think she claims her lapdance cash...me thinks not lol....its not her fucking business because her friend isn doing anything wrong that we know for sure...she is living within the rules in place...should people start ratting 'just in case' a crime is in progress?

 

But.... it's not her business.

Canada isn't as bad, but it's in the same league. But speaking of the US, we spend massive amounts of MY money to bomb poor people, imprison thousands upon fucking thousands of people I think should be free and build more prisons for the same reason, wage an evil war on drugs and personal freedom, bail out the very people spending my money recklessly, run massive debts (My college may close soon, because my state cares more about having the unions highest or second highest incarceration rate, while running a 18 BILLION dollar debt, which our state constitution doesn't even ALLOW AT ALL) and lots more. Welfare, as I said, isn't even a dent, and if it where, I'd MUCH prefer that someone smokes some weed with my money than ANY of the very much more prevalent things I just listed.

Oh, and my state(who are given the money by the feds for welfare to dole out as they see fit, and who make it almost impossible to get on welfare) spent their childrens medicaid money on the "texas enterprise fund" or some shit....

Understand yet? If not, I'm sure I've got more things I'd like the money to be taken from in the government. This chick has problems, but taking welfare is the least of them.

Yes, turn in your neighbors, how else will they find all these welfare terrorists? Besides, if they don't get your neighbors, it will be obvious they're missing someone, and you're that someone.

While we're at it, let's give children ear trumpets to listen at their parents doors. In fact, we could make a youth group called "the spies", to coordinate all of this snitching, so we can make their parents disappear in the night more efficiently.

 

qft.

and you are right that it is the same everywhere... some people want to look at welfare and social assistance as things that have a lot of money thrown at them...

They are not... In fact, considering so many politicians saying that helping the poor is a priority, we sure don't indicate that by the money that is spent.

By arguing from a point of view that you think too much money is being spent to make sure people have food and homes, while 10000 times that is being spent to kill people, is to say that you consider killing to be a more worthwhile expenditure of 'your' money...

 

You make a judgment about Kista and then take her to task for her judgment of her friend. Tsk, tsk! If you are wrong, and Kista does pay taxes on her earnings, isn't it her business if her money goes to support her friends dishonesty and laziness.

 

what judgement ?...she is an exotic dancer also known as peelers to those of us that have spent considerable time inside of clubs lol...if she claims her dances on her tax she is the first peeler ever to do so?...

 

for the record....i love peelers.

 

Whether its a lot or a little is not relevant - abuse of the system just keeps more money from going to those who really need it

 

Except for in extreme situations: welfare is bad for the individuals on it and all of society.

It makes people lazy, it makes people expect hand-outs, and Welfare neighborhoods typically encourage people to abuse it through social conditioning (everyone does it).
It takes a really strong willed person to use Welfare and stay independent.

I don't see how anyone can defend Welfare abuse, when even when used legitimately, Welfare is such a bad system.

I don't want to see anyone starve; but "free money", as it's known to many on it, is just not the best way we could be helping them (or ourselves) out. (How about community service jobs for the poor and needy?)

 

So go fix the system... In the meantime... feel great that more of your money is going to kill people then it is to help people... Maybe one day, we can just focus only on killing them...

 

Not supporting Welfare =/= supporting war.

It is very possible that I think both are horrible.

You may want to get an MRI, such faulty logic could be a sign your prefrontal cortex is damaged...

 

You are sitting here bitching about the little bit of money people get on welfare while your government is spending trillions killing people...

If you want to bitch about something, bitch about the people that are being killed in your name.

None of what has been said is an argument FOR welfare fraud... it is an argument against denying anybody help to survive...

Claim that you would never want people to starve all you want, your attitude is encouraging it to happen...

I'll take my logic over yours ANY day.

 

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I agree with this. I think the money doled out for welfare would be better spent providing a rehabilitation of sorts to welfare recipients. Give a person money to pay their bills and eat, of course, but also map out a process in which a welfare recipient must meet with a counselor a couple of times a month to help write resumes, aid in job searches, sign up for classes at a community college, etc etc.

Welfare should be a means to an end, not a permanent fix. Welfare should be designed to provide temporary help while people strive for self sufficiency and independence, and instead it is designed to keep people down and dependent on the government.

People who do not support welfare use the argument that it is frequently abused. I'm actually surprised that so many of you seem to think welfare abuse is okay. Political adversaries of welfare problems use abuse as an excuse to fight to get rid of welfare altogether. If you support welfare, you most certainly should not support the abuse of the welfare system because that is exactly the crack in the system that some politician one day will use to completely shut down all welfare programs.

It has nothing to do with war or supporting the death of soldiers. Thats a logical fallacy. Welfare and defense are two entirely seperate programs. you can support one and not the other, you can support both, you can support neither. It doesn't matter because they don't have anything to do with each other.

As for the OP, i really don't think anybody needs to rat out welfare recipients who may or may not abuse welfare. I do, however, think that if one is truly a proponent of welfare the best thing one could do is be vocal about ending abuse of welfare , because the abuse of the program is exactly the excuse that one day will be used to take welfare away completely.

 

I dont think bc some people abuse welfare, we shouldnt have it at all. When I was on it, only twice in my life, they always made me go look for a job, and put in applications and I had to go to job corp, etc to keep my benefits. there was no choice.
I think it is sad, when people are just looking for things to report another person on. Who even knows if she is even abusing it. IF she qualifies for assistance, then she probably didnt do anything wrong.

 

The judgement you made that Kista was not reporting al her income, and the same one you made about all strippers. Thats insulting