Consciousness, reality, and states

Lillally and I started a conversation in an old thread that got continued in PM's. We are interested in starting a thread about it so that others could join in, share their experiences, ideas on the matter, etc.

We've yet to come to a precise point, but the ideas are there so we figure that eventually the thoughts will solidify into something. Though the subject is varying, it's very likely that other sub-topics will come up as well, which is great.

Here's a few of the messages to give an idea of what we're talking about;

I said that I'd start the thread by answering her last PM;

We can try to fit it all into this thread. If there's something you or anyone else wants to discuss we can always go back and discuss it. We may just have to address one thing at a time.

That's something I really mulled over after my first trip and out of body experience. I wanted to know if what I experienced was real, or if it was just a product of an altered mind. Based on what I've read about the theraputic value of entheogens, I'd say that much of the experience is real.

It's our sober definition of "real" that is skewed and needs to be questioned. We mostly define real as something that can be experienced in reality. But the fact is that reality can be altered, changed, etc. That would naturally make someone question the nature of reality. If it can be altered to the point that another state of experience becomes temporary reality (those things we see, think, feel, etc.) then they must be real. I'd say that if something can affect your senses, then it's real. Whatever "real" is.

I'd say not quite, but in a sense yes. In order for something to exist there has to be a perceiver. When we are not conscious of them, they are not existing independently of us. In my opinion something only exists when someone is aware of it.

When every human is young they develop object permanence;

"Object permanence is the understanding that objects continue to exist even when they cannot be seen, heard, or touched."


I personally believe that object permanence is a defense mechanism made by the mind to make reality that much more real. Could you imagine how devastating it would be to people, especially young people if they knew that their friends and family didn't exist when they weren't aware of or in their presense. People would freak out completely.

So I don't think that those experiences exist independently of us, I don't think anything exists independently of anything else. Like the old question, "If a tree falls in the woods...."

I think that reality is manufactured from the inside out, and so if I'm not presently aware of something, then it doesn't currently exist. Things and people come and go in and out of our present consciousness on a daily basis. What happens when they're away? Apparently they lead their own lives, but there is no real proof that they exist when we are not aware of them. If reality is a moment, how can there be separate moments?

I think that the mind creates reality and everything present in our reality; people, objects, things, thoughts, etc. There is nothing separate from reality. It only seems that way because in a sober, conscious state we are only ever seeing a fraction of reality. I think that these things (experiences from drug/dreaming states) are a apart of the collective unconscious we're all a part of. It's very likely that when we are not experiencing them, someone else is. They find their way through into reality and consciousness all the time. This is why millions of separate, individual people have experienced the same things (symbols, entities, etc.) for so long.

I think that reality is expanded in drug/dreaming states/waking visionary states. The imposed curtain of sober reality is opened to reveal another large part of it.

Yes, I believe that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself through reflections of what we think reality must be. When you don't really know what reality is, you have to create it. Which is what each and every single one of us does 24/7; we create our "own" realities. Our conscious selves are separate in that we can't experience the other person's life/reality. But that layer is only a fraction of what we really are.

I'd say that we are all a part of the life energy that some choose to call god. There is something that causes all this, there's something that causes the spark of life between a sperm and egg, something responsible for the energy our brains rely on to function. I suppose that thing could be called god. I believe that each and every one of us is god, in the sense that nothing is separate from the rest period. We are all one, which would include being a part of that life force (god). We are never separate from that energy. I don't really like using the word god because it implies a leader, or something that controls everything. But I guess that's how I'd use the term to describe the fact that we're not separate from the life energy that is in everything.

I believe it's my turn to apologize for the long post. :tongue:

 

Nice thread, i thought i would bring to you guys attention a book called the holagraphic universe by Micheal Talbot i been reading lately and though i would like to be able to write here what understanding i have gained from this book i actually cant get it from my head into writtable english lol

Some of the ideas brought up in this book seem to me very intuitively correct and im sure you guys will enjoy it as it has alot to do with this topic you guys are expanding on.

 

I'll check that out, thanks for the suggestion

 

I thought I was a pretentious douche bag, but you take the cake lol

 

In truth no one really knows (not even the so-called experts) :toetap05:

So we speculate :2thumbsup:

Hotwater

 

I'm pretentious because I have opinions?

 

nice it's long... apologies accepted i'll have to mull over it for a bit... get my thinking processes going... :2thumbsup:

cheers! will take a look at that book too...

 

Naw, just that you actually made a thread of your private PM's with some belief that it would be of some interest, when it was actually pretty self loathing because it read as if you were posting an interview of yourself by yourself, showcasing your ...in demand logic ? It just came off as very asshole-ish and snobbish and insulting to the communities intelligence.

when it was actually unnecessary because much of your answerers were common sense and basic human insights common to humanity.

but to be fair, that is how i felt reading and i should have said this thread seemed such and not you as a person.

I m weird when it comes to creating threads and am always reluctant, so its no surprise that i react to others in a similar way.

peace

 

and thanks for all the positive Rep for my post fellas, and why give me a negative one Lunaverse? its my opinion?

 

Ever hear of summarizing a point forthright, it's called an introduction. I'll get back to you.

 

That's how he rolls man.

Nah but honestly I think lunarverse is just a young guy enraptured by his own thoughts, or he thinks that things can be solved/made manifest by thinking the right way or thinking hard enough.
It's a phase of insanity that almost everyone I know has went through.

 

what is so pretentious about questioning reality and sharing opinions and listening to the opinions and experiences of everyone else? man, you need to go flash yer angry pants somewhere else...

 

absolutely nothing wrong with it. Like Ive said already, it didn't wash well with me how he went about posting the OP.

generally, the whole body of his post/threads are in similar tone. Which makes me suspect hes a youngster described as how neodude put it.

 

man, what is it with you guys? i'm certain that some of these thoughts are being bandied about amongst many who are far from insane, according to populous "scripture"...arf (previous statement depends largely on how one would define sanity/insanity)

 

I read this, this morning and had to let it sit a little and come back to it after I was done thinking.

I really enjoyed reading the thoughts of both of you and where you are going with this. I especially felt connected to this,

I think we create our own realities all the time and it is from what we know and experience. I am not even sure that we are aware that we do this. I believe it is from the moment of conception and fetal development that we start to be wired with familiars. It is the base that keeps us able to cope with those things that we may encounter that we simply can not explain.


Interesting thread.

 

Lordy, if someone does not care for the thread, walk. Honestly there are more than enough threads to go around.

Some of us might actually be interested in what others are thinking and their thought process.

 

Oh I'm interested, just for different reasons.

 

i'd be interested to know what those reasons are...?

 

:2thumbsup:

 

yes, and an interesting response too so... do you think, that if we are all creating these (our own) realities, then each reality actually exists, and that some, who are sensitive enough, might be able to see all those other realities too, as well as their own?