I have been following and sharing on the "Israel now kills people on TV". Where are all the peace-nicks, peace freaks, brothers who care about human life? No biggie the supporters of state murder say. They're Palestinian, Arabs - but most of all they're not Americans. No big deal!! How many of us marched against just this kind of human on human horror? Now - silence. My heart aches. Where are our tears now??
My tears are there, I am not an older hippie. Just an young person with many hippie ideals. I am saddened by this whole matter. Wish there was more I could do. The world can be a very sad place.
I am always dismayed when I hear people say things like ... "The Muslims and Jews have been fighting forever. There's no way to end it." It can be ended. People on both sides have to realize that there's no winning ... there's only losing, and losing more or less than the other guy. They don't even know why they hate each other anymore, if they ever did.
Give it time, it'll be the "new" mantra for everyone. I think the destruction has to hit them in the face to see what it really feels like when you've lost someone to war. All the pomp and glory and national pride will take a second place to humanity. The hate and violence will cease and good will toward others will begin once they realize it's genocide they are practicing.
Don't want to rain on your parade but it's not going to happen. The palestinians feel they are being held captive in 2 small area of their own land ( gaza strip and the left bank) and the Israelis think that they have a God-given right to be resident in israel and they are prepared to do anything to protect it. I could weep every time i see kids throwing stones and the retaliation is with state of the art automatic weapons.
They hate each other because they are fighting over land that has religious importance to both parties. The only way to end it is if America and Britian stops backing Israel and Israel gives their land back to the Palestinians. And I dont think thats going to happen anytime soon. Political leaders are instantly labeled anti-semitic if they dare to question Israel's right to exist. Look what happened to Jimmy Carter. i doubt it, but thats a nice idealistic thought. I'm pretty sure both the Israelis and the Palestinians are fully aware of the destruction of war, and so far humanity has defininitely been riding in the backseat. Greed, hate and destruction get shotgun. I used to sit around and weep over all the horrible atrocities being committed everywhere. Then I realized they were being committed literally everywhere and I was sacrificing my happiness for something I couldn't do a damn thing about. I figured I would be doing more for the positive energy of the world if I stopped weeping over something I couldn't control and instead focused on making my little corner of the globe nicer. I realize thats selfish, but what choice do I have? The plight of Africa breaks my heart more than anything going on in the middle east, just as a side note. i'll leave you with a quote I've always liked because it tells me my little bleeding heart and your little bleeding heart might serve a purpose one day: The hermit's prayer and the widow's tear alone can save the world from fear-William Blake
Every single death diminishes us. The cost of religion in terms of death, torture, ruined lives and lost potential is enough to allow us to fill all the oceans over and over with our tears. Is this inherent to the human condition? You don't look, eat, think or pray like i do so i MUST kill you, you motherfucker infidel!!!! That dirty unbeliever KILLED my father. Fucker! i will now devote the rest of my life and my son's education to ensuring the DEATH of his son. That bastard's kid KILLED my brother. Son of a bitch! i am dropping everything, picking up a gun/machete/whatever and i am going to KILL him. That . . . . . Someone needs to be a REAL MAN (WOMAN) and say, no matter how much it hurts, even if we get struck down right then and there, "IT STOPS HERE WITH ME!"
it doesn't stop there though. The person who stands up gets killed and the person who killed them goes on to kill more. not to mention people who grow up in the middle of warfare have a completely different mindset than most people on hipforums. Its easy for us to sit around and talk about the evil of war and how simple it is to stop it, but we don't really know. None of us have a clue.
I blame right wing morality: -the instinct that the lives and wellfare of one's own people matter more than the lives of others -the instinct that doctrines and traditions matter more than compassion for others -the instinctive acceptance of hierachy, including the hierachy of the strongest It's the morality not only of Zionists and Islamists but also of the Christian right, which lends real clout to the Israeli lobby, holding the world hostage to daft ficticious religious doctrine. To me the rights and worth of a Palestinian is the same as that of an Israeli, an American, a Brit, -which is liberal morality Unfortunately right wing morality is part of the spectrum of human nature. All we can hope for is a change in content of doctrines..
And I submit that that is exactly the attitude that guarantees the conflict will continue. I don't care whose "fault" it is. I don't care who "started it". I don't care what their damn reasons are anymore. None of that matters. Just stop it. That's all they have to do. Just stop it.
I dont think my attitude has anything to do with whether or not the conflict continues. They aren't going to stop just because we want them to. it is and it isn't as simple as just stopping.
^indeed. i dont think the Palestinians are going to reach a point where they say "okay, you know what? We WERE here before you, buuut...in the interest of world peace, we're just gonna walk away. You can have the whole territory since you pretty much already stole it anyways. lets go grab a beer."
You made me think of one of my favorite quotes.. "I've been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one.."
I wasn't referring to you, specifically. How silly would that be? I'm referring to the attitude in the world that continues to repeat the tired old refrain to the effect that "the Arabs and the Jews have been enemies for centuries, therefore they will always be enemies and there's nothing anyone can do about it." How many times has that attitude been expressed in the history of the world? How long before they finally realize that attitude isn't going to solve anything? And your comment about "grabbing a beer" is cute, but not relevant. This is not about being sarcastic and hoping the other guy gets it. It's about resolving conflicts. It's about sitting down like adults and working it out. Sometimes you just have to set the ideologies aside and go for the pragmatic approach. Do note that I'm not taking sides here. Both of them have committed grave offenses against the other in the past several decades. Both of them have acted like total jerks. But again, I don't care. It doesn't matter. We're not talking about two little boys fighting over who gets the bigger dessert. What matters is resolving the problem.
I didn't mean any disrespect with my sarcasm, but I do think my comment is relevant. Not the beer part, of course. However, the fact that the Israeli's have slowly taken over that entire territory is relevant to the fact that Palestine is not just going to put down their weapons one day and concede the entire territory to the Israelis. They're going to continue to fight for what they believe is rightfully theirs. You may not care about the source of the conflict, but I can assure you that the Israelis and Palestinians most definitely care. I agree with you; what matters is resolving the problem, but its not that simple. I agree with setting aside ideologies and going for the pragmatic approach, but again its not that simple. Its a complicated conflict involving territory, religion, birthright, and some of the most powerful nations in the world. Its easy for you or I to suggest taking the pragmatic approach, but the people living in that part of the world live in a warzone of a cyclical nature. War is all they know; the pragmatic approach probably means little to them. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I just don't really see the point of viewing this problem from my point of view. In order to understand it, you have to understand it from both the Israelis and Palestinians point of view. Before WWII the Zionist movement was relatively peaceful. Jews and Muslims lived side by side in Palestine and shared the territory. It was only when the United Nations became involved and carved out land specifically for the Jews that it became a violent conflict on the scale that it is now. Britain and America essentially created this problem by handing over land to the Israelis, and we continue to feed into the problem by supporting Israel. I think the pragmatic approach would be to hand the land back to Palestine with the stipulation that the Jews and Palestinians live on the land peacefully. But as long as Israel continues to take more and more land and claim the right to exist as a sovereign nation and as long as America continues to support this claim, the conflict will continue. The only thing you and I and others concerned can do is write our political leaders and express our desire to withdraw support from Israel.
Ddoright, I know you're a righteous dude and mainstay on the hippie forum and I'm an infrequent poster but still, it seems to me that this is much better suited to the political forum. I don't come here for political discussions - I deal with suffering and conflict too much in the day to continue (this sort of) passion in the evening. Interesting that the only nation in the Middle East with a hip culture would arouse so much animosity on HF. Hardly a day passes that Hamas or one of its affiliates doesn't fire rockets or mortars or ambush a random car - and almost always targeting civilians. Hamas, dancing in the streets over 9/11. Hamas, refusing to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. Hamas, oppressor of women. Hamas, hungry for yet another war of intended annihilation. Hamas, filled with hate. Sure, weep for Muslim youth - robbed of hope and future by their elders preaching a hate that's so far beyond anything preached by mainstream Christianity it's not even in the same universe.
i'm sorry I just realized this was posted in the old hippie section. Now i feel like a young whippersnapper lol....yeah, the political forum would probably be more suited for this. still a good thread, it got me thinking about the israeli/palestinian conflict and also made me feel a lot of love for humanity knowing that you guys are so compassionate...i just wanna give all of you a big fat hug for caring so much that you cry for all the tragedies in the world :grouphug:
I suppose I started this tread remembering how so many of us took to the streets in the 60's and 70's to try and make a difference in the actions and attitudes of those who create and support violence - particularly corporations and governments. I knew it would fit in a political forum but I thought perhaps it might also fit here - where I spend more of my time. I wanted to discuss this among my peers - young and old so I put the thread under Hippies - not Old Hippies. Meliai - My friend - I think hippies is just the place for you.
