I searched 5 pages back and could find no topics on this so here we go.. It is a common discussion; does DMT connect us to alternate dimensions with real spatial entities, or just create hallucinations due to our mind reacting to a drug? I used to believe the former when I first started traveling. I have not had many DMT trips yet, only a little more than 10. With this experience though I now believe DMT may be a more suitable form of our neurotransmitter, serotonin. By introducing it into our systems across many generations, it may replace serotonin entirely! The DMT space could be our own world in a more truthful way. Try to picture what the planet would look like if we could see on an atomic level? Pretty damn complicated I'd say! Of course every experience is colored by subjective differences in personal interpretation. It may be part of our minds, and part of a truer reality we've previously been blind to right before our eyes! Remember that we can only see light naturally, there are many other types of electromagnetic radiation we are blind to. Also we cannot process visual information nearly fast enough to witness many events that occur all around. High-speed video footage is proof of this, and even that has it's limits. There's so much more around us than we could ever possibly know in an entire lifetime! Our limits only allow us to see part of the truth, perhaps DMT allows us to break those limits?
This issue has been appearing sporadically on this forum lately. I don't think its been given its own thread yet though. I really don't know, I consider myself fairly skeptical about most altered states. I do find it incredibly difficult to believe that everything that happens under the influence of dmt can be chocked up to personal subconscious like you can do with mushrooms and LSD. If we were to say this is a completely neurological phenomena I think it has to be on a more universal level. That's not to say everyone has the same dmt trip but there is enough similar trips in regards to completely bizzarre related material to make me think some hardly used or veiled pathways are being stimulated. I don't know about the different dimension thing though either I mean Ive always had some vague sense I'm on a drug.
There is a lot of material on this topic, though not on this forum. There is a rather famous paper by a group of math and computer freaks suggesting various semi-scientific experiments to try to prove the existence of hyperspace entities. i tried one once . . . http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=243537&f=125&page=5. But, even though i may feel like a scientist/observer in hyperspace, i am actually incredibly intoxicated and distracted, so the whole thing kinda fell apart. . . . i do not think DMT will ever replace Serotonin. They evolved hand-in-hand and side-by-side. i believe one reason DMT is so short acting AND why it is not active orally without MAO inhibition is due to the fact that Homo Sapiens Sapiens is a rather newcomer to the scene on this planet relative to how long the DMT containing plants have been around. Just thinking from an "apes down from the trees to the plains" scenario, eating the wrong plant and getting nailed to the savannah in trance that is completely immersive and hard to break makes us easy meat to predators . . . Also, DMT is already an endogenous neurotransmitter and i believe was recently found (in crystalline form no less) to coat our neural sheaths . . .Anyway, visionary states have their uses, but for the reality of day to day survival . . . Just like with deep quantum mechanical math, there is a component of human consciousness to every psychedelic experience. It's like the wise movie character, Yoda says in The Empire Strikes Back when he's sending Luke into the tree and Luke asks what's in there. Yoda says something like, "Only what you take with you." Wise words. But, i have been to hyperspace so many times (i honestly think the number is now close to 500) and broken through about 100 times so far. i would be a liar if i didn't confess that i too have been convinced on a deep, fundamental, soul level of my being that there is something more to hyperspace than just hallucination. i think that that feeling of high energy and vibration when you take a really good, hard, fast breakthrough dose ties into it. It's related to the the Large Hadron Collider needing incredible amounts of energy to try to look into other dimensions. Admittedly, not the same thing, as one is hard physics and one is metaphysics but it feels similar. Like these hyperspatial dimension would be visible to our senses and machines if things were just energetic/high energy enough. Here there be 4:00 a.m. rants from an old lady on an abstention break. Nice thread.
its all just one dimension being arbitrarily seperated by our perceptual processes. we already exist in hyperspace.
Yes DMT is already present in your nervous system and is thought to have a key role in dreaming. Does that make sense to you experienced with DMT? Do parts of the experience resemble a dream scape? As far as "seeing" and processing more sensory input then we are normally capable of, I feel LSD does this better than any other psychedelic substance. From the reports I have read it seems as if DMT can completely supplant normal perception rather than amplify and intensifiy it, but I have yet to experience DMT, so my thoughts are limited regarding it. Any thoughts on this idea you DMT veterans?
The most intense of normal, technicolor dreamstates is kind of like a mid-dose DMT trip for me. But the higher dose DMT trips, the breakthroughs really stand out from dreaming as well as everyday experience and a wide number of altered states, whether drug induced or not. But, i have noted elsewhere in these forums that when i take DMT abstention breaks from my heavy use, after about 1.5 to 2 weeks i start to get "breakthrough dreams." These look and feel exactly like a breakthrough, complete with the super sharp, hyper real visuals, body load, pounding heart, sitting bolt upright, gasping, panting, swearing. But, after about a week of these endogenous breakthroughs, my REM visions go back to their normal weird selves, significantly damped down relative to the DMT experience. i am inclined to agree with you PB_Smith - LSD, Mescaline and Psilocyban at low to mid doses definately allows me to see better - it not only causes mydriasis (letting in more light from swollen pupils), but my shitty (20-450 without glasses) vision signficantly sharpens during the experience. Also, of course, i am taken out of myself so i perceive things differently, i make new connections. This feels like cultural, experience and even body-knowledge filters being dissolved for awhile . . . it feels like a more pure look at reality. It shows the truth about everything. Wow, i have a cat fur problem. Shit, soda pop tastes terrible and fruit tastes miraculous. These are just simple examples. It can quickly get much more sophisticated. But DMT, ah DMT . . . if i stick to super low doses and do not slip into trance (or if i slip into light trance and when the trance breaks . . . ) then it looks and feels almost exactly like the peak of a very high dose LSD trip (bit more geometric and vibrational/energetic). Frankly, sometimes, so high dose, it's the high dose LSD trip that i NEVER took and i've taken a few . . . . Once i go beyond the low dosing (which is my preference) it is on: It's what Terence McKenna, you and i share a fascination with - TRUE hallucination. Not delusion, not usually (tho' sometimes momentarily) but TRUE, room destroying (beyond transformation for me), 3-D, immersive visions. Frankly, if i do it right, it does NOT matter if i try to close my eyes or not - it is exactly the same vision. i once took a huge dose (70mgs) in in one single massive hit. By the time i dropped the pipe, the room was spinning in a vortex and the multi-colored granny-square afghan had reared up toward my in a 3-D shape. The next moment i am GONE, in a black hole that is not black and this eventually leads to a geometric/entity breakthrough. My husband reports my eyes didn't close for at least a minute or two and even then, i lowered the blindfold (Mindfold) over open eyes. When i came out of trance, my eyes were wide open and super dry. That's DMT.
One thing that I have noticed that confirms my belief that LSD and similar substances only modify external stimuli and do not "produce" hallucinations is the lack of patterning when I don't have my glasses on. I am very nearsighted and when on a psychedelic substance the patters just are not there if I'm now wearing my glasses. I have explicitly tested this the last few times I have been on a journey with shrooms, mescalines and LSD. If I look at something that will always result in fractal patterns, acoustic ceiling,carpet and grass are very good for this, I only see the patterning with my glasses on when I can see the normal detail of the surface. Take my glasses off and the patterns go away and it is just blurry as it is normally without my spectacles. My suspicion is that DMT visuals are not subject to this and are therefore independent of outside stimuli for their creation. They are created and "viewed" without the need of modifying sensory stimuli reaching the visual cortex, and are wholly "internal" events. Does this hypothesis make any sense to you, and have you noticed the same, Spicey? (oh no, I feel another psychedelic dissertation coming on, better start typing before it slips away))
i think that you are more sane/stable/in line with the consensual reality tunnel than i am, but overall i am inclined to agree. i must confess that i have outright hallucinated and been delusional on both LSD (once) and Psilocyban (two to three times) in my life. True hallucination only seems achievable with those medicines when i am in a completely (scary) delusional state of mind. What i was seeing was not being generated by external stimuli - it couldn't have been. Admittedly, the LSD (& perhaps 'shrooms) one definately began that way, but soon were on their own and did not end that way. i don't need to take anything to hallucinate lightly (mainly peripheral vision images or impressions of small animals or children in movement), but i know the little things i see aren't real and it's been going on since 1989 so . . . these peripheral visions do not appear to have a movement as their source. . . Regarding the with glasses on/off issue. i have one eye that is 20/450 on a really good day and another that is more like 20/250. i am not able to fuse vision. i see out of one eye or the other. 3D movies and images don't work (& have never worked) for me. My ability to navigate in my world is based on decades of life experience and what visual scientists call "depth cues." The 20/450 eye is dominant/on and the 20/250 is recessive/off WITH my glasses ON. The 20/250 eye is dominant/on and the 20/450 is recessive/off with my glasses OFF. Sound confusing? Actually, it's really trippy. Here's what i get with LSD/Mescaline/Psilocyban: With glasses on, the left eye and right brain are dominant and i tend to get all the visual effects with objects at a distance but it breaks down up close and my trip is "right brained," and introspective. With glasses off, the right eye and left brain are dominant and i tend to get all the visual effects with objects up close but it breaks down at a distance . . . The trip is "left brained," clinical, analytical, i am thinking, interactive, connected, sharp, insightful, have an extremely good memory and can follow multiple conversation threads over time, see geometrical and mathematical relationships, etc. But, with DMT, just like it doesn't matter if eyes are open or closed, it doesn't matter if glasses are on or off. DMT has taught me that vision is a creation of the brain/mind and NOT the eyes. Thus, by definition, the visuals are independent of external sensory (she hedges her metaphysical bets, he he) stimuli . . . They are indeed wholly internal events. Again, the proof is in the experience for me - the business of having broken trance, eyes are closed and i'm watching a gorgeous 3D geometric solid rotate. i open my eyes and that object is still rotating, floating, in my living room. It might not be as sharp or colorful, but it's still there. i close my eyes, it's there, eyes open, it's there. i laugh. LOL. Psychedelic dissertation. Mine are rants pure and simple and i take great pleasure in them. i love our discussions PB_Smith. . .
That is what I suspected. That DMT visuals are independent of external stimuli, where say LSD visuals are very Dependant on external stimuli. When I rant it usually carries with it a strong emotional, pissed-off component, whereas my "dissertations" are pretty much just that. My thoughts and impressions put to the page. p.s. I just "published" my latest dissertation in the psychedelics forum
I would say DMT visuals are dependent on external stimuli in most cases, sometimes it's not as easy to pick apart like it is with LSD, because things are happening so fast here. Also think entities are just what the mind tends to conjure up in certain situations, and causes similarities in trips. Like the entities I saw. Trip at night, long weird shadows in room, fear from trip, lightning fast insecure thoughts/emotions cause shadows to animate to actual beings. Cartoon poster of hunter s. animated and he actually came off the poster. Orison said something about a camel dancing on a pack of cigs. IME when you close your eyes and really let go is when the visuals are completely dependent upon your own thought.
Beyond a certain point, as stated above, it is the same for me, eyes open or closed, whether i let go or not (this is only a determinant of panic reaction rather than trip content for me IMO). But, this is the point where i cannot resist the trance. DMT has me and there is no escape. No matter what is happening in my trip my sitter says i looked like i was peacefully asleep, breathing normally, evenly, deeply . . . i may go into it saying i'll keep my eyes open. When the trance breaks the eyes are either open or closed, but again, i am convinced that at these dose levels, the visions are exactly the same. Smitty25 - i know you have done massive doses. Have you ever accidentally dropped the pipe and been unable to continue? Have you ever, instantly and completely launched from your body? Ever been told by a sitter that you had a catatonic trip? Just curious.
Never been instantly launched from my body I don't think. Course I've dropped the bowl though lol. Even thought it was burning into me once, and let go cuz it was freaking me out a bit. I've only tripped around other people on DMT like 6 times that I can think of right now. When I did my big dose with my friend I ended up just sitting cross legged pretty still for the trip. He said I exhaled pretty heavily a few times, and I can remember doing it once because the trip was just so overwhelming. Did also end up sweating that time, and remember feeling every single molecule of every droplet of sweat on my eyebrows. I tend to get warm on DMT. I'd think most heavy trips you would appear catatonic unless you were sitting in a meditative position. I mean only time I see people not like that are when they take a hit and are so surprised by it they don't continue, and sit there going damn and mildly freaking out a bit (IMO/IME if you do enough DMT you can't move enough to have a really bad freakout), or if we pass a bowl and only take a hit (did that in the back of my friend's SUV, was also time dude went into UDF right after taking a rip).
Yeah if DMT stimulates less commonly used areas of the brain that could explain the differences in perception, but I think the subconscious definitely plays a role as well. When smoked, it happens so quickly that the brain only has a certain amount of time to react. Since we are all the same species, there must be many similarities in our safety "threat response" programs. However there are also differences. I believe since there is so much going on in a DMT trip, many humans will share similar experiences. Our flawed communication system reinforces this notion, as it is quite hard to put DMT trips into words, at least in my experience. It could be a symbiotic relationship, plants produce chemicals which may be useful to a mammals brain chemistry, mammals eat (or smoke) these plants and chemicals over a period of hundreds of years. Eventually if a chemical is more suitable to a mammals brain chemistry than current chemicals, that mammal could evolve, swaping the brain chemicals indefinintely. Just because DMT and serotonin evolved side-by-side I feel has no bearing. They could be competing neurotransmitters, and one is simply more useful than the other. I know both chemicals are said to be present in the human brain simultaneously, but no one really knows what endogenous dmt is used for, and its concentrations are usually incredibly small. Perhaps it is slowly adapting to our brain over the thousands of years humans have used ayahuasca. In some more time it could replace serotonin entirely. Now this process could take decades, centuries, mellenia! Evolution is a slow process, but I believe the cycles of our sun may play a role in the rate of evolution. (but thats another discussion!) Yes! I completely agree with this statement. I would say there may be a slight resemblance to some of my dreams. I have dreamed of dmt trips before, but also lsd trips and mushroom trips too! All in all, I'd say the DMT experience is much different than the dreaming experience, although I'd say a few parts may overlap. Perhaps HPPD is actually our brain becoming aware of new sensory input previously unseen? Lsd was definitely the main cause of my HPPD, but I enjoy it. I can see beautiful fractal patterns in nature everywhere I look! I do not think I could go back to my old way of seeing, nor do I want to. I believe psychedelics litterally open our minds and eyes to things previously unknown, internally and externally. However, I do think the subconscious plays a major role in the subjectiveness of experiences. I would say DMT is a much larger change in consciousness than LSD. LSD leaves a person realitively "intact" with the physical world around them, thus more observations are made in physical reality. Whereas with DMT eyes are usually closed and physical reality is non-existant, so more internal revelations are made. Just my current theory!
