Revelation Revealed?

Discussion in 'Sanctuary' started by jmt, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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    Well then, what does Jesus set out as requirement s for "preparing our souls"?

    Also, why must we reach for his second coming, does only God meet us half way or something?
     
  2. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    Very good.
     
  3. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    Purifying your heart and mind and following his teaching. If you want the specifics it might take a while... they're in the Bible though. :)

    Not sure what you mean exactly. What do you mean by "reach for?" Jesus said he will return and that we must be ready.
     
  4. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Why do you call me good, only god is good.
     
  5. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    He wasn't calling you good but what you said. :rolleyes:
     
  6. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Must have spoken god's words then huh.
     
  7. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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    Well, judging by your previous posts (this is a total assumption, so correct me if I am wrong), but are you a Sola Scriptura/Sola Fide Protestant?


    You said that we reach for his second coming. I was asking for clarification what "reach for" meant.

    Must we do one thing to be ready, or is it a process of doing? What sort of state must our souls be in to be ready?
     
  8. def zeppelin

    def zeppelin All connected

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    You make a good point.

    As for those that don't believe, I think it is not enough just to believe because even the demons believe in God (James 2:19). We must also act as Christians; It isn't enough just to believe. Perhaps that's what you meant by "believed in JC" :D

    You're right, though. It does seem fair and it seems that God does say he will act for the sake of the elect (Matthew 24:22). But, I don't think anyone will escape the troubles, only that they will be saved at the end of those troubles for proving their love for God.
     
  9. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    Thank you :D
     
  10. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    I'm honestly not familiar with those terms. I don't know what I am, if anything. I just do my best to listen to God and learn from Jesus.

    I don't remember saying that... my bad if I wasn't clear though I'll go back and check.

    It's a discipline. We are sinners and the temptation to sin is everywhere. It may even be in our human nature to sin, or at least be enticed by the prospect of sinning... it feels good in other words, otherwise it wouldn't be tempting.

    It's a constant battle to keep pure (including in thought) and that's where the discipline comes in. This discipline should flow from your heart. Your body and mind will be tempted, but if you keep your heart pure (this is where Jesus helps us if we let him) then you can overcome these temptations and win the battles. Or at the least you can be constantly improving yourself spiritually.

    I would say they should be in a state of openness, acceptance and trust in God and Jesus. We don't have to be perfect (since we aren't) but we do have to be willing to learn and fight to be as pure as possible in accordance with the teaching of Jesus. In order to be able to listen to God, our hearts have to be in a certain state. Jesus helps us attain and maintain this state if we are willing to follow him.
     
  11. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    Just to clarify something in regards to my comment on "human nature:"

    I never much liked the term "human nature" because it's often used as an excuse for being a certain way and saying that it's natural and therefore okay. I believe that this "nature" can be overcome when it leads us into sin, and this is a significant part of what Jesus' teaching can help us achieve.

    Another reason I don't like the term is that it's ambiguous. What I meant by it is that it seems natural (as in default condition, a condition which I don't know the source or reason behind) to me to be enticed by certain sinful behaviors.
     
  12. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    Oh I see where you got the "reach" comment from now. Sorry I missed it. I was referring to reaching other souls, in other words to help get others ready if you can and they are willing.
     
  13. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Not by a long shot but ForestsEchoLaughter seems to have liked what you said. ;)
     
  14. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Mankind was not made with the tendency to sin but after Adam and Eve all mankind has been born into sin and thus sinners, which makes us have the tendency to sin.
     
  15. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Just wanted to see how you would treat the statement but did not get the opportunity.
     
  16. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Temptation is the desire that an illusion be true. What is sin?
    You were created by god, how can you "improve yourself", you do not create yourself.
    If your mind and heart are not pure then how do you know what purity is. How would you describe purity.
    Become as little children!
    "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect." Jesus of Nazareth.
    You are a perfect creation of god. We are human beings that sin, we are not a creature called sinner.
     
  17. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    Sin is that which inflicts harm, opposes or distracts from love. That which is selfish. That which displeases God.

    God created us and we have free will. We can choose to do what pleases Him (which is also best for us, even if we don't see how) or not. Chances are you aren't going to wake up one day and completely free yourself from your sinful habits. It can be a process, and as long as you are sincerely on it He will help you, forgive you and guide you.

    My mind and heart don't need to be completely pure to have an understanding of purity. They are capable of feeling and grasping it even if they are not it. I see myself and I see ways I can be more loving. I know this even before I have changed myself.

    Purity is keeping your intent, thoughts, feelings and deeds honest and loving in the way Jesus taught.

    That is the goal, yes.

    Yes, that is the goal, but as I said it may be a process to get there and staying there is a discipline.

    That may be so if we do that which pleases Him. But we can choose to throw that away. Regardless we aren't robots, we each have our own personality and ways of bringing and experiencing joy (God's gift.) In this way I would agree with you, but if you are suggesting that it's okay to sin because God made us that way then I disagree.

    Okay but a human being that sins is a sinner.
     
  18. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    I would have treated it as OWB suggested. :cool:
     
  19. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    This idea is the reason people struggle with sin. Sin is not an act, it is an error in perception, meaning to miss god's sign. Everyone is devotional by nature, where your treasure lies, there is your heart also. We naturally do the thing that we think is good at the time, based on our model of what good is. When you reach for that pleasure you do so because you think it offers something of value to you.
    To be attracted to sensation is equivalent to laying up for yourself treasures on earth. I say this so that the connection can be made plain.

    There is nothing you can do that violates the will of god. Simply, you are not free to choose what your inheritance is but you can refuse to accept it.
    Love, being without condition, is beyond what can be taught. There is no such thing as pure water with toxins in it. Water with toxins in it is not pure.
    There are no degrees of purity.
    Purity then is consistency.
     
  20. ForestsEchoLaughter

    ForestsEchoLaughter Member

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    That's an interesting take, which I agree with. Nothing I have said opposes this.

    Yes!

    Exactly, this (faulty) mode of perception leads to certain behaviors which can be called "sins." I guess there is a difference between "sin" and "a sin." A sin can indeed be simply an act. That act would not arise if not for the faulty perception (with the haywire value system) which we can call sin itself.

    You've done a good job explaining.

    I'm not sure about that, isn't that what sin is? But I suppose we have to say exactly what we mean by "the will of God." He has complete power over us and could make us do whatever he wanted, so in that way we can't really violate His will. However, He has given us the ability to decide some things for ourselves, or rather we fell out of obedience to His will with original sin.

    So now, He has a plan (will) for us, but we can choose to reject it. Wouldn't that be opposing His will?

    Love may be without condition but the target of the love can choose not to accept it. I think it can be taught, although it's not a purely (in fact mostly isn't) intellectual exercise. It's primarily learning with your heart. I would say that everyone (?) has love in them, or the capacity to love. The ability to do this effectively and consistently can be taught and the best (the only) Teacher for that is Jesus Christ.

    I have noticed when talking to people over time, that I can begin to open them up over certain things and get them thinking about things they never did before - atheists especially. If you are good enough to person, consistently, and pray for them and deal with them as an equal, with respect no matter what, eventually you can start to see amazing changes in them and if you are lucky enough God will use you to help teach that person. At least I've had that experience frequently.

    The point being that if you can get the heart ready to accept something, then the mind will follow. The mind always follows the heart, that's even true for those who will never admit it, or even refuse to think in the terms I am using.

    Of course their will and choice comes into it as well at some point - but there I got nothing to say, would be interested to know if you do.

    Water with any amount of toxins in it is not pure, but there certainly are degrees of purity. Some water can be more contaminated (or "less pure") than other water (which would be "more pure" but not "pure" which is reserved for 100% cleanliness.) Although I suppose this would be more accurately described as degree of contamination or non purity. I'll grant you that. This may lead me to change my wording in the future but the idea remains the same.
     

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