Well, I don't really post here very often and I am not intending to start a flame war or anything. I consider myself agnostic simply because I believe there is really no way to prove it either way. I support evolution but believe the only way to prove nothing is beyond is to die and find out yourself. I am always willing to hear the other side, because that is the easiest way for me to learn. That said, how can you put agnosticism and atheism in the same category? The only reason I can come up with is there will not be enough posts in each to seperate them. I doubt this is the case, though. I am not trying to change anything, just curious. -misfit edit: Sorry if this topic has came up before. If so I just have not found it.
i basically have the same belief as you, as with evolution, and no real way to prove either way.. while i probly fall closer to athiest than thiest, im definately agnostic. i think why theyre put together is that theyre both not thiest.. and a lot of people dont know the difference
Yeah, good point. To me, being agnostic, atheism is as far away from agnosticism as creationism. Damn, that was a lot of ism's. Creationism usually has a big story or whatever to go with it telling it's rules and history, but ahteism is still a belief in something that cannot possibly be proved. Perhaps this section was intended more for those wanting to learn instead of those who already share those ideas just wanting to talk about them.
Well i have nearly died twice..all i saw/felt was an endless (so it seemed) struggle by myself to wake up ..but at the same time just wishing to carry on sleeping and enjoying the endless situations i was popping in and out of . It was frightning but fairly pleasurable all at the same time..????. I did not witness any god, nor did i seek god when i awoke...
No offense inteded, but for all I know those people could be lying. Maybe they could be having a type of near death hallucination, similar to what you would experience from heat exhaustion. All it is to me is words, similar to when a creationist knows god is out there because they have a strong feeling that can't be mistaken. I don't cast out what they say, because even though they can't show me solid evidence it is true, I can't prove they are lying.
I collapsed and hit my head hard. All these images flashed before my eyes, like memories that I'd never had- I felt like I actually was someone else, I saw a crying indian girl and I was her brother, and I was at the winter palace in Russia.. I wasn't scared. I didn't sense anything like a g-d, and all it really did was make me believe Jung's theory of the collective unconscious! You know how people say they see a light at the end of a tunnel? apparently it's just your body slowly closing down, something to do with the vision-related parts of your brain, so it is really like you see it..
Very thoughtful words. I have known NDE survivors that astral travelled and saw things, described them, and could not have known about them otherwise. So it is more than a hallucination. I agree with you re: most creationists. I believe in Spirit cuz I have seen far, far too many very clear things that defy rational explanation to be able to remain an atheist, which I was most of my life. I am also one who does not discount something out of hand, just cuz I have not seen it. Blessings, Ken
This is a really cool thread. To be honest I was expecting to hear more aggressive replies. mathew, Your experience seams simliar to experiences I have had going in and out of a conscious state while I was very very hungover. I am not making light of your experiences. Honestly, yours seems to be more of what I would imagine death to be like than I have heard from most. Very interesting. Disarm, Your experience is also similar to what I would imagine it would be like. I know this may sound contradicting. When it comes to things like this I generaly do not hold a solid opinion and argue combinations of things. I will definitely use your type of experience in discussions with my friends. BlackGuard, I think that was a semi-compliment, but I'm not totalty sure. I'll just take it as one. I have lightly delved into the astral projection, obe topic. My main argument against it is: If the brain is where memory is stored, and you have a spirit which can travel freely (which I seriously do not discount, whether it is energy or more than that) how can you retain what you have experienced while projecting? Could this projection be a really realistic dream, or perhaps some type of telepathy that you must be in a certain state to experience? *I have so many arguments and ideas, and I just like to hear what others think of them. It is an odd feeling being on a continous quest for the truth, and yet honestly believing I will never know until the end of my life. Thanks.
BlackGuard, I think that was a semi-compliment, but I'm not totalty sure. I'll just take it as one. I have lightly delved into the astral projection, obe topic. My main argument against it is: If the brain is where memory is stored, and you have a spirit which can travel freely (which I seriously do not discount, whether it is energy or more than that) how can you retain what you have experienced while projecting? Could this projection be a really realistic dream, or perhaps some type of telepathy that you must be in a certain state to experience? *I have so many arguments and ideas, and I just like to hear what others think of them. It is an odd feeling being on a continous quest for the truth, and yet honestly believing I will never know until the end of my life. Thanks.[/QUOTE] I meant it as a full compliment, but wanted to say that I have seen these things in my life, in such an order and clarity that your possible explanations such as a realistic dream or the earlier hallucination thought, are not possible answers. If I had one or two of these, I would not be so sure. I have seen what I consider proof of astral travel by my fiance this year, and in my life there have been at least six dreams that to me are proof of precognitive dreams accurately and exactly to the most minute detail showing me the future. I agree we hopefully find out when we pass on, and we wont before. I liked your post, and just wanted to share the events and experiences that are the reason I no longer feel as you do about some topics. Its all good.
Just wait... They havn't woken up yet. They will come in and tell you whats wrong with your life, and tell you how to live it. Anyways.... I wish people would learn to seperate agnostics from atheists. Because that could lead an agnostic to turn atheist. Most of the time agnostics just havn't found what they are looking for yet. I used to be agnostic myself. I went from atheist -> agnostic -> confused?!? -> a very liberal christian. The bad thing is that I get more flak from the christians around here than the atheists get from the christians.
Insofar as I have the exclusive communication line to the Almighty, I command you to change your personal spiritual beliefs immediately, and believe exactly whatever I decide is the correct interpretation of whichever one of the multitude of scriptures in the world that I, in my infinite and infallible reason, say is the ONE TRUE RELIGION. If you refuse to join me and my most righteous mates, I am compelled to warn you that the most hideous tortures the worst criminal minds that have ever lived will be enacted upon your person for no less a period of time than a googleplex to the power of a googleplex millenia. That is a fairly long time, I might add. I am right and you are wrong, that is what I know God wants.
It's possible to be both an agnostic and an atheist, like me. I'm an agnostic because I don't believe that it can ever be proved with 100% certainty either way (very few things can), but I'm an atheist because there really isn't any doubt in my mind regarding the nonexistence of God (no more than I doubt the nonexistence of the Easter Bunny). It's also possible to be both agnostic and religious, even though most fundamentalist Christians won't admit it.
There is no doubt in my mind regarding the existence of a higher power, Spirit, God, whatever. I have had other miraculous things happen that prove to me there is something. I agree with Buddha, though, that our minds cannot comprehend God. It is beyond us, indefinable, incomprehensable, indescribable. He suggests not to worry about it and just be good.
well one near death was more like your experiance if i am honest ..i did the same thing ..i felt like i was on my way out.. you explain the experiace very well, thats prety much what was going on in my mind as well...its been a while so the images are not as clear to me now..but yeah i can go with the collective unconscious thought it was realy quite an experiance ... the lump on the back of my head reminds me of it every now and again..something i would like to experiance again.. we used to play a rather silly game when i was at school... you would have to bend forward an breath in and out to the point of hyper ventilation then take a deep breath and some one would push both of their hands onto your chest (your back would be up against a wall)...this would make you pass out for a few minutes and this would give the effect you describe ....the next best thing to having a near death vision...very very very stupid thing to do ...but at the time bloody great.:&
Agnosticism And Atheism Are not related. One is about god The other about religion Humans think there is a connection. Occam
Which brings us back to why I created this thread. airforcedrew, That is funny. I actually get far more flak from athiests where I live. And I live in the deep south, in the bible belt! People here who own private businesses will actually close on "wednesday" so that they can go to sunday school! Yes, I said wednesday! In my personal experience, I have met more ahtiests who get all pissy trying to convert you than devout christians. I suppose it is all relative to where you live.
I don't get it. I've explained this to you guys a million times. Agnosticism is not a third alternative to atheism or theism. I've explained this in at least four threads already. - Laz
