message to all you heathens and pagans who come here and harass christians!!!!!!!!!!!

J-Laz
what may appear as "evidence" for Christianity for you may not appear so to another.
Many atheists would love the idea of an after-life where we could go to Heaven, where we have an all-powerful being watching over us who loves us, etc

northernlehigh97
I can give you plenty of sufficient reason for following Christianity, how about the first hand miracles that have happened in my life due to God. How about my first hand experience of seeing someone who wasn't able to walk, walk through prayer. What about experiencing stimata first hand? This is what I base everything on. And I try to spread the word for those people who haven't heard of Jesus. That is how people who don't know of Christ would find out. That's what God wants Christians to do. And I don't consider being an atheist a religion as you do.

BG13
I have seen my share of miracles, and since they happen in all religions, how is that reason to be Christian?
My God wants Christians to quit harping that they are right, and all others are wrong, and just accept others as they are and treat them with unconditional love. I write that last line in reply to nl97 writing about what God wants. I actually can't say, I didn't talk to God about it.
Atheism is more like a philosophy, but it is just as valid a path as any religion, to me. I'm not either one, but will accept both, and leave you to your own search, instead of trying to vainly convince you to think like me or be wrong.
How arrogant.

I agree with Laz, and actually if you read the above quotes by Laz, your replies are off target, and support him instead of your goal of rebuttal.

 

Yay!!

 

Well just as BlackGuard said, your post confirms my exact point. You claim to have seen "miracles". Yet; (1) Other people have not witnessed these miracles, and thus they don't have any reason to believe - only you do; (2) The miracles that are considered the most famous throughout history (Fatima, Zeitun, etc.) have all been shown to be entirely inconsistent and confused in their reports, or simply outright fraudulent - so the well-known miracle occurrences have been shown false or simply not rationally upheld; and (3) Declaring something to be a miracle in the first place requires you to be omniscient. This is so because to say that a miracle occurred (a miracle being an occurrence that breaks natural laws - or an event that transcends natural law) requires you to know all the natural laws so you can confirm that no law can account for it. Yet no scientist would be so arrogant as to say they know all natural laws - humanity has not arrived at that level of intelligence yet. So one could never say that a true "miracle" occurred in the first place.

Specifically, it is (1) that confirms my point. You might consider these supposed "miracles" that you've supposedly witnessed good evidence to believe in Christianity (although, why can't these miracles come from Allah? And what about all the "miracles" performed in Allah's name?) - but since others have not witnessed these things at all, they have no good reason to believe in the religion that you do. Further, even if they have witnessed such things - why shouldn't they contribute them to Islam instead? All of the Marian apparitions are entirely consistent with the Islamic creed. There were thousands of Muslims present at the Zeitun occurrence in '68. What good reason is there to attribute such a thing specifically to the Trinity - instead of the the Islamic God?

- Laz

 

What would you call these things to convey what you mean?
What would a miracle be, or do you feel there really is no such thing?
What value is there in discussing the semantics of the word miracle?
I see no practical value in it.

 

BlackGuard, are you carrying those boulders up the hill? Your efforts dwarf those of Sisyhus!

 

I just used my telekinetic powers to will them up there.....lol.
Actually, I am just doing a push up, and the picture is rotated 90 degrees to look like I am 30 feet up a sheer cliff. Then I doctored it to put sky in the background.....
It just looks like I am foolish enough to be 30 feet up without a rope.
Okay, I am really that foolish. I couldn't doctor a picture to save my life.

This was taken at Whistler one fall day when my friend and I were hiking around near the top of Whistler Mountain. I saw this wall and there is a crack that I knew I could climb, so......

Ken

 

Um... okay.

 

mirical is the impossible happening in a situation supernaturaly

 

Not necessarily since by this very definition, a miracle would be impossible. But if the impossible happened then it wouldn’t be impossible! The notion taken by many, such as Spinoza and Hume, is that a miracle is a violation of a nature law. But, since nature--we’re supposed to believe--is governed by laws, then any violation of said law, would be impossible. And secondly since, I would argue, a “natural law” is impossible to know on the basis of empirical science, than it would be impossible to know when a law had even been violated! Indeed, what had been thought to be a law, would simply be modified to accommodate the new finding. Instead, a miracle is a supernaturally caused singularity that is not anti-natural in nature, and can have three basic functions (1) to glorify God (2) to accredit certain persons whom God has sent (like the apostles) and (3) to provide evidence for belief in God (like the resurrection)

 

I really admire the disjointed aggression of this piece. Sounds like ee cummings or someone?

 

arlia, I know what you mean. The above is an exercise in logic, but it is used to point out a theoretical absolute that I cannot see the value of here. I hope Jatom knew what you meant.
I like your definition much better than Jatom's too. His definition is too narrow for me, and hints at the concept that only one faith can have them.
The experiences I have been part of may possibly fit number 3, but if so, the evidence I have witnessed only proved to me the existence of some unknown Spiritual force, of no particular religion.

 

I think I know precisely what she meant, she's just not a real theoretical thinker--her gifts lie elsewhere. She's probably very strong in areas where I'm very weak and if we had a working relationship we benefit greatly from each others' strong points. This is how the body of Christ works! Each person's gifts are given not for the edification of himself, but for the whole body.

Perhaps, since one doesn't need a working knowledge of philosophy to understand it However, someone who thinks on a different level (say, J_Lazarus) won't find her difinition very appealing, perhaps even unfalsifible or immune to logic.

No, not that only one faith can have miracles, only that miracles come from one source.

That was your interpretation of the evidence. Evidence is merely evidence, not proof.

 

Thanks, I agree with most what you say.

I only said that the evidence proved something to me. I guess I could say it is faith, but it is so strong a faith, from so many things over such a long time, it borders on having been proven to me. I made sure to say, to me, cuz it is only to me.

 

Her gifts lie in creative spelling.

 

creative spelling?
no,im dislexic actually!
u ahve no idea wats my gifting is.
and if u did it would b too much for u to understand anyway.
i know what im talking about i jsut dont nessisrily knwo how to put it down in the words that you would understand.just because i dont speak theologicaly it does not mean that i do not knwo wot i am on about.
im wise in the things that matter.

 

Try me... with God, all things are possible.

 

i am also wise enough to knwo not to share my dreams and visions with people who will not do trhem any good!
take example of what happened to joseph when he did.
i will tell you that god has given me great visions and prophecies over my life to lead people,not with preaching but simply loving upon them.
i have a deep pasion to help people.
god is going to use everyone of the gifts he has placed inside me to reach out to people in such a way that words cannot,through my artwork and my music and jsut the way that i live my life loving ppl.

god is calling me to many amazing things,that i can feel,but i cannot see.
that is why i walk by faith and not by sight.
i know god leading me to new places and new walks of life

 

i'm really sorry if this offends anyone but as an ex-pagan who converted to christianity i find what u sed incredibly rude! how do u expect people to get rid of the christian stereotype of that shalt do this etc. if u go round saying that! if you want other people to respect your religion, respect theirs!

 

who me?
or the dude that started this thread?

 

just curious, what level christian are you?