only so many?

I used to think I knew a lot. Then I read all of PB_Smith's posts.

 

Yeah, I wish there was a way for me to post the video, but a link will have to to;
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/explorer/4094/Overview

 

I'll take that as a compliment
Thanks :cheers2:

 

What would Timothy Leary say if you proposed an acid Limit? He'd say fuck you I'm doing your acid limit and then another

 

ill take an acid limit + 2. take that leary.

p.s. it's funny reading your random posts spexxx. haha

 

Well, a lot of people think Leary in the end actually hurt the movement.

 

Dude, drugs are something to be used responsibly.

 

the negatives outweigh the positives. why do u think lsd got illegalised. all the tests ended up being inconclusive. alot of the dr.'s and psychologists research became jeopradised because of their lsd use.
timothy leary, the lecture at harvard university, got the sack, his research was debunked. he claimed a 90% success rate preventing repeat criminal offenses ,but actually the percent of men in the study who ended up back in prison later in life was approximately 2% lower than the usual rate

***LSD research was being conducted in major American medical centers, where researchers used LSD as a means of temporarily replicating the effects of MENTAL ILLNESS
***From the late 1940s through the mid-1970s, extensive research and testing was conducted on LSD. During a 15-year period beginning in 1950, research on LSD and other hallucinogens generated over 1000 scientific papers, several dozen books, and 6 international conferences, and LSD was prescribed as treatment to over 40,000 patients.

***Although initial observations on the benefits of LSD were highly optimistic, empirical data developed subsequently proved less promising ... Its use in scientific research has been extensive and its use has been widespread. Although the study of LSD and other hallucinogens increased the awareness of how chemicals could affect the mind, its use in psychotherapy largely has been debunked. It produces aphrodisiac effects, does not increase creativity, has no lasting positive effect in treating alcoholics or criminals, does not produce a 'model psychosis', and does not generate immediate personality change. However, drug studies have confirmed that the powerful hallucinogenic effects of this drug can produce profound adverse reactions, such as acute panic reactions, psychotic crises, and "flashbacks", especially in users ill-equipped to deal with such trauma


lsd is an unpredicatable drug, which can cause bad trips, panic, psychosis, suicide. mental problems.

the cluster headaches thing is pretty cool tho.
and well it is a profound drug and deffinatly can give insight, which may help alchoholics. but that hardly gives lsd the right to be legal.

all the dr'.s n researchers who were doin it lost the plot.
prob the most important thing was that it gave the citizens of society a mind of there own. and the government had to illegalise it to regain control of society. just like the invention of god.

im not saying lsd is all bad.

the experiencing are deffinatly profound and a crazy way to see the world. but its important not to get carried away, like so many people.

perhaps u have a weak mind?
and my gramar is just fine thankyou.... its not an english assignment. idiot. lol. so much hate

 

look at this poor cat on lsd. they have to kill it after this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOxBnx7sGQQ"]YouTube- Laboratory test LSD on a cat

lsd is rightfully a recreational drug, that one takes at his or her own risk.
its not like im telling people not to do it. or that i didnt like it. it was amazing.
but in the end it all just wears off n ur not really left with anything.
it efffects the mind. i went to uni for 1.5 years and failed, my mind was jeopradised from lsd.

ur quoting all this stuff off websites n crap... but what good has lsd actually done u?

lsd experiences and thoughts were amazing.

but for me, at a point, i couldnt even comprhend a converstation that a dude was talking to me, i didnt know what he was saying i couldnt concentrate so bad.
i couldnt remember a 5 minit drive down the road, even tho i did it numerous times a week. it took months to remember the way. i had a psychotic reaction. i failed uni. i was up and down and all over the shop. i had lots of flashbacks. i saw patterns over things.
i heard voices.

tho i have recoverd for most part. and all the "benefits" i dont have.

dont get me wrong i loved taking acid, i was a free spirit, i had amazing trips. i had amazing thoughts. but it all wears off. leaves nothing really. i can vouch for there inconclusive results.

but i can say, that doing acid maybe 10 times in ones life, to be a rewarding experience. not hundreds.

 

Would you mind giving the source and possibly a link to the above information so that the rest of us can read it in it's entirety?

I'm sorry if racist, loudmouthed, uneducated, sexual offenders aren't my favorite type of people.....



No wait a minute I'm not sorry at all.

 

Fuckin a peter.
Do you do anything but talk out your ass?

 

here's the better answer you gave to your own question.

why does the government "illegalize" hemp. is it really THAT harmful? why do they allow nicotine, tobacco, alcohol? why do they do a lot of fucked up shit?
it's not a good argument.


i've seen that cat video. i agree that it's terrible. but i'm not sure if the cat is really on LSD, and if it is, i'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that it was on an insanely high dose - like a "clawprint" or something..

and are you 100% sure that the ice didn't contribute to your hearing voices and other delusions?

 

Hah, a claw print

 

An Acid Limit? Lol.

Well more seriously, with people wondering if you hit a wall or something: Some people do I guess. But you never gain tolerance. And some people continue to get value out of it. Albert Hoffman continued to use it his entire life. Ya know, the guy who discovered it? Lived to 102, only died 2 years ago. So no, there is no amount you can do over time that's going to make you go crazy. Generally those incredibly rare cases where lsd makes someone go off-kilter are cases of extreme doses, and are generally -also- accompanied by extremely traumatic circumstances, or pre-existing mental issues.

Some people... well, there are some things that lsd seems to confront you with. If you face them and accept them, lsd stays a positive. If you reject, if you pull away, if you resist, you generally are going to have a bad trip. Problem is, the same thing is pretty likely to come up again another time. If you continue to resist every time it comes up, then lsd is going to get a lot less fun. Lsd is just not going to be all fun and games, if you continue to take it. The experience will change, and if all you are looking for is a good time, it has a limit.

It's also -not- the be all, end all of 'enlightenment'. And that's actually one of the problems with it. Because early in usage of it, many people get a glimmer of some idea that somewhere in the experience...if you take it enough times, or take a high enough dose, it will reveal...something. Some grand secret that will just make everything better. It's not like that though, and chasing that secret for a lot of folks becomes, as someone said earlier, like a dog chasing it's tail. It's a puzzle with infinite complexity, so far as I can tell. You can lose yourself in it. And doing so I think you might miss the point, if there is one.

If you can take it lightly, if you can use it and accept what it offers and not chase the visions it sends you or resist the mirror of yourself it shows you, then it can be a powerful tool for keeping yourself -sane- actually. Also, it can continue to be fun, at least a decade and a half into usage, and hundreds of sessions down. At least from my experience.

 

He easily hurt it, but I think it was destined to fail anyways.
Connecting spirituality with a chemical substance is a pretty big no-no in Western culture, from a scientific, political, and religious perspective. To be honest I think it's a muck-up even from a personal standpoint, but who am I to tell people that they are insane.
When it comes down to it, the government doesn't really give a shit if you think we are all One, and the longer psychedelic users keep shouting half-baked, lazily implemented magical beliefs and ancient mysticism from the rooftops, that's how much longer they'll remain illegal.

 

:iagree:

 

Interesting, considering there's strong evidence that our entire culture, the blueprint of our social dna, is formed with the use of substances for 'spiritual' purposes built in. There's solid scientific evidence that being involved in some sort of religious practice is good for the psyche. There's obvious evidence that people, particularly young people, find something lacking in their lives. Throughout all of history, people have turned to substances to fill that lacking. Alcohol, coke, laudanum, opium... As long as there's been people, we've had some sort of relationship with mind-altering chemicals. Every society, every culture. Well, almost... there's the occasional puritan-like sub-culture, but there's always flow in and out of it. Some born puritan 'go astray', and others replace them. And those cultures replace it with strong spirituality anyway.

So maybe it isn't 'mystical'. But it certainly does seem to be a basic need of the species. Or at least...some members of the species. Spirituality actually seems to be a pretty basic component of humans as well. And there exists some possibility, assuming no specific religion is right, that our original connection to spirituality actually came from our relationship with such substances. Just about every religion talks about some sort of sacramental substance, generally as a key element of the ritual. So is it so odd that a resurgence of psychedelics would have a spiritual element?

It bothers atheists, because it's 'half-baked, lazily implemented magical beliefs and ancient mysticism', it bothers the ruling religion(Xtianity) because it's competition. It bothers most everyone because it's kind of chaotic, and sounds a bit half-crazy. But it seems to be somewhat unavoidable. When people who are basically agnostic take psychedelics, a certain portion of them are going to start having mystical revelations. Period. Wait another thousand years, the same will remain true.

Maybe we need a bit of chaotic, and maybe half-crazy is a useful foil for a pretty damn crazy world that's calcified some rather messed up ideas. A bit of uncertainty is helpful, if you're too certain of your ideas, you'll never grow past them.

One interesting thing here is that so many of the half-crazed mystics grew up, and 'grew out' of mystical thinking, and are now looking at the next wave of mystics and getting into a bit of pearl clutching. "Oh why, oh why do they have to take on -that- element of what I did when I was younger? I gave that up and went back to the calcified, ordered, well-established and acceptable ideas, and I was so much happier, I fit into society much better..." Well, if they don't crack out of that shell themselves, they'll never manage to take things to the next level. Never manage to take things Further. Which I think would be a shame.

Maybe Leary and Kesey did hurt the movement. They certainly helped to blow up the movement too big, too fast, and scared the government into prohibition. But they also set examples. Not of what to do, but of what is possible. Of what could be done. Of what the substances could mean.

Sure, for some it's just about getting fucked up and watching the walls melt and laughing at everything. That's fine. But there's also an urge, a craving in many people for something else. Something that can only be termed 'mystical' because we lack a better word. Something that, though these things don't -provide-, they certainly seem to key into. They seem to open up greater access to. And I don't think that's a muck-up from a personal standpoint. I think it's actually pretty vital. I think our culture needs mystics and shamans and priests. I think we would do well to explore down others paths, give options other then christianity and atheism.

Shrug, that's just me.

 

In regards to Leary, I'm gonna go be cliche and quote Hunter because he does a good job of summing it up:

now I'mma go quote god himself on this subject since I really like this quote because I think in pointing out the significance and power of LSD for the human psyche to form its opinion of reality, in that power can lie destruction for those too eager and unprepared to have their current fixed line state of reality turned into something of a dream mixed wit a Van Gogh painting.

 

I'm confused as to what demographic you are referring because there is no such thing as an "our culture" in the global sense, and so I fail to see how evidence pertaining to culture or "social dna" can be related to higher spiritual purposes or truths.

It isn't necessarily the religious practice itself that is good for the psyche, it's the sense of belonging and being a part of something that is shared amongst a collective. One could derive the same benefits from being an avid fan of a major sports team, or going to concerts of a favorite band, or joining a book club. Coincidentally, young people tend to need this type of support system the most, and are most vulnerable to it's effects, for better or for worse.

Not only do I disagree that humanity has an inherent need of psychotropic substances in order to fill some existential void, I also find it mildly offensive that you've relegated Puritanistic societies to fringe-status, as if they aren't legitimate congregations of humanity because of their lack of drug usage. It's both comfortable and very easy to feel that way about cultural groups we are not involved with, but when that same attitude is taken down to the level of thought regarding individuals it's precisely that kind of bias that is neither good for the psychedelic movement, nor for the psychedelic user.

"Spirituality" is a broad umbrella term used to categorize everything that humanity does not currently understand. At the moment, psychedelics remain firmly rooted in such a categorization.
So no, I guess it isn't odd that a resurgence of psychedelics would have a "spiritual" element.

Since you are tagging atheists by associating them with a direct quote of mine, I'd just like to take this opportunity to state that I am not an atheist.

Yeah....and maybe we don't.

That is exactly my point.

You already have limitless options other than Christianity and Atheism, but that's besides the point.
What you are proposing is exactly what I think is wrong with the psychedelic sub-culture right now. Firstly, I think it's a mistake to attribute mystical, spiritual, or any sort of grand meaning to psychedelic drugs, mostly out of principle. I do accept that this is very common though, and completely understand why people do so. It is perfectly fine for someone to have a psychedelic experience, and then find great importance in it that they implement into their personal life. However, when it leads to people theorizing on why psychedelics are important to society in general, that's when it becomes a problem.
Saying our culture needs things like mystics and shamans is no different than saying our courthouses need a tablet of the Ten Commandments in them, or that our children need to be taught about Jesus in the classroom.
There absolutely must be a strong dividing line between personal belief, and society in general, and it is this line that I so often find lacking in the majority of psychedelic users because they seem to just accept it as a part of the sub-culture they feel they belong to.
And the lack of such a line was the basis of my previous post and only serves to reinforce the point I was trying to make - the longer such a line doesn't exist, the longer these drugs will remain illegal.