'What' is definite?

There are so many different religions, different types of spirituality, so much that can muddle with someone trying to find their own path. This is what's messing with me right now.

I want to know, what is definite? What is there, and is true, and is not obscured by different names or images to represent it.

I realize this is why I have failed to astrally project, because I adamantly will not allow myself to enter a world of imagination, of my own preconceptions, so I need to know..

My spiritual journey I find has 3 points.
1. Begin.
2. Find the Truth.
3. Study it.

I need to find the truth first. Not just what I believe, but what the truth REALLY is.
I don't want to follow a faith or idea for 20 years and then suddenly go, 'oh shit, gotta start all over again'.

Is anybody in a similar basket? Can anybody help me with this search?

 

"You've got to walk that lonesome valley -
you've got to walk it by yourself.
Nobody else can walk it for you -
you've got to walk it by yourself."

Sorry, this old song just suddenly appeared in my brain. Kind of a corny old song, but also kind of not.

Damn, something else just entered my brain, some lines from an old poem by Theodore Roethke:

"I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.
I learn by going where I have to go."

The path is yours, and the only way to figure out is to start walking. I started on mine in my teens, and now I'm 56 and have found some truth. I could tell you some of what I've found, but it won't be yours - that you have to experience yourself.

The path isn't always necessarily straight - but it's all necessary, and none of it is wasted. Just pick a direction and start moving. Religions aren't a bad place to start. My personal favorite is Zen Buddhism, but I've found a great deal of relevant stuff in Christianity too. Just keep in mind, as the Zen saying goes: "The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon." What you need is the moon itself, not the finger.

And as I said, I could give you some of my experiences to ponder, if you're interested. But again: You need your own experiences before the truth becomes yours.

 

Deeply enlightening, my thanks to you zen.
I would be glad to hear of your own experiences also, to glean what i may from them and to share minimally in your victory through them.

 

Nothing is definite in the realm of the mind. It's all interpretation.

 

Our entire experience of life is an interpretation. But we can independently verify certain things about the universe we experience, thus we have scientific knowledge and applied technology. The arena of the mind is murkier, but there are still some constants that can be independently verified.

 

The only thing definite is change.

Everything we think, and do moves us around this place of change as if we were but planets in the heavens.

We are here to grow beyond what we know, thus all we think we know must change as we stretch, and grow.

Far from futile is this arrangement we agree to, because we came here on the path we are on by choice, so we might be aware of what power we embrace within us.

As each aspect takes on a mind and life of its own, we forgetting who we are...and why we are here, grasp, and cling to that which resonates within our knowing as if we are but notes in a song.

Take the whole of all that is, as if all that is ..were but pieces of our own stain glass window showing who we are.

Then reach once again for change so you might grow beyond what you now see and know.

The next question might be...Who are You?

as for me I have moved from being a spirit having a human experience into being one with the essence, and breath of all that is.

 

Well old crone, your post "coincidentally" fits my mental state quite well today. My spirit guide told me in any email recently that it's time for me to let go, spread my wings, and fly. I of course poo-pooed the whole thing, being the cynical guy I am, but today I'm starting to see she wasn't just blowing smoke.

However I still say there are certain constants in spiritual growth. The paths differ, the specifics differ, the mental and spiritual states change, yet there are certain things you can say that are universally true about the nature of spirits and the earth-school experience. Otherwise why say anything? Which is another way of seeing it, of course - as I like to keep saying: The less said about Zen, the better.

 

I realize this is why I have failed to astrally project, because I adamantly will not allow myself to enter a world of imagination, of my own preconceptions ... Spiritchalist


ah , heck , i failed to astrally project , too .
and i even had the instruction book . i got
interested in it after i met a guy who said
he's a wizard , would gladly be my friend ,
and we could do Lsd together and he'd
teach me to fly astrally .

it was my first time to eat the Lsd . we did
it at a party . when i got to trippin folks started
joking on me , playing with my head . so i just
went home and tripped alone in the old farm
house .

here's the vision i had , and it's still true . it
has proven useful and enduring .

seven spirits flew out of me . these spun and
whirled out and away into spirit sky . then i
see a good transformation is put upon each
according to the specialness of each .

then they returned . the seven spirits reside
aligned across my chest . the other day i
thought to make a glyph for each one and
got out my sketch book . hmm .. i learn an
odd something trying to do this . i learn that
only 5 of them are special to me : the other
2 are apparently simple and common to all
humanity . one is feeling .
another is togetherness .

 

I believe what Buddha said to be true: Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it. Not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason.

Basically he was an advocate of individuality. It doesn't require any thought or effort, really, to be yourself. Shut it off and go.

 

That brings to mind the Zen saying: If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

 

when you do follow a faith or idea , it could be as you
have said - 1. Begin - a good nuff beginning .


shut up
and live it .
how ? i don't know how .
it is said .. Truth is Alive and will serve the children
goodness bitter and sweet . shut up and eat it .
ha! oops ...
.
.

 

This moment is definite. In fact it's the only thing that can actually be established as real, anything we point to outside of it truly is imaginary for the time being. The past and future are like the moon in the sense that the sun is now and the moon borrows light from the sun. Nothing is definite without first being here right now. Now is where it began and begins

 

Yes...I strongly advise reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, if you haven't already.

 

ok , what about a psychic perception of the future ?
for this discussion happening in a psychic forum , let's
assume it is an aspect of definite . moments are connected
by understanding .

understanding has existence ?
it has motion ? is an existence vibe ?

 

Been working on it I love the tone to that book already, and I'm not really that far in as of yet

 

"Be weary of a man who claims to know the truth"

Someone said that once I guess.

 

Yup, that's definite, all righty.

Or a psychic perception of anything, for that matter. Like the time I "saw" the woman who is now my wife and described her appearance, even though I had never seen her at that point in time. Or the time later that I was talking to her on the phone and was suddenly inside her head, looking out through her eyes, and interrupted her on the phone to verify that what I was seeing was real.

And etc. After all, as you say, we're discussing this on a psychic forum.

So what does this say about what's definite?

 

Why? Where's the wisdom in that? Is the Buddha automatically something bad?

It's possible that the world is stranger than we can even begin to know, maybe aside from knowing that it's really bizarre.

For all you can prove, anything could be happening. For instance, I have no idea if you live in the same world that I do.

But empiricism is where the fun's at. People who believe in the possibility of psychic phenomena are on the fringe... One more definite thing is that we won't give up, I guess.

 

The idea is that you hold nobody in awe or reverence, and you don't seek to be like anybody, because you are the ultimate just as much as the Buddha or anybody else.

Yeah, observation of psychic phenomena is empirical - when you can get even that much. Mostly for me it's just stuff in my head that nobody can confirm or deny except me. In the two cases I mentioned, my wife could confirm that what I was telling her was valid, and there was no other way for me to know it. But it's not exactly a placebo-controlled double-blind independently repeatable experiment, is it? But we know it's the truth, and that's why we won't give up.

 

Yeah, but a Buddha wouldn't want to be held in awe. A Buddha that wanted to be held in awe would be nothing but a dick.

Yeah, something like that is a real eye opener. I'm hoping that more support for each other will increase our confidence in these things and lead to more empirical evidence.