Because science knows EVERYTHING..

If I were to tell you mermaids were real, you would ask me to prove it.
Not the other way around.

 

Sir-.-'nOOBalloT, my statements are addressed to people who reason in the following way: "The universe itself and especially biological entities are very complex. Every complex thing we find (say a watch) has been created by something more complicated than the thing itself. This is always the case, pots never make potters, horseshoes never make blacksmiths. Therefor the complex universe (laws of physics, periodic table of elements etc) and the complex biological forms which inhabit it must have also been created by something more complicated than the universe and the organisms themselves. Such an entity can only be god."

This more or less is the main argument used by theists in favor of god's existence and my earlier statements were aimed at showing the fallacy in this argument. By postulating god (whether an Abrahamic god, or a deistic first cause god) to explain complexity the theist has failed to explain complexity, he has merely pushed the question back. One must still ask "and how did this complex god come to be?" If the complexity of the universe demands a creator then the complexity of the creator demands a creator ad infinitum.

In response to your final question: "Are u saying that if god does exist he would be a biological creature?" No I am not exactly saying that but I would say that if life on Earth was designed, it must have been designed by a superior race of beings from another planet, but I would not call them gods because they must have arisen from simple beginnings through Darwinian processes. Of course I do not actually believe that life on Earth was designed by aliens, I merely find the idea more reasonable than the idea that god created life on earth.

 

Yeah dude there still had to be a point of creation that defines all common sense to the mind of a human that exists within this universes there for cannot think in terms of outside of known physical laws which is where god would reside if he were real. I mean we can look back in time and see how our universe has evolved over time simplicity converted in to complexity. But still how did singularity came to be surely all that mass and energy was more complex than whatever was surrounding it. U could speculate that singularity it itself just popped in to existence or it formed from some weird particles or energy but then again these had to pope in to existence out of nothingness to. So sooner or later the further we look back something more complex than the surrounding nothingness had to just pop in to existence and that was the point of creation.


So really its a stalemate.


Theist say god created the universe so atheist ask who created god then. But from theist point of view u could say that the universe with no god had to come it to existence from nothingness so why couldn't god come to be out of nothingness to?

 

Perhaps what is perceived as nothingness is God since God would have to be uncreated.

 

As complicated as it all appears to be, it is really all 1s and 0s. Multiplication is just quick addition.

 

Even if we assumed ALL science was wrong, that still doesn't make the other right. wtff..

Like parts of science hasn't been 100% therefor god exists.. HA!

some fucked up logic there.

 

If you are going to postulate a god that always existed or a god that came to be out of nothing, then why not just postulate a world that always existed or a world that came out of nothing? For all of the problems with imagining how things came to be postulating god does absolutely nothing to solve those problems. Look at the way in which the theist is reasoning: The world is complex therefor it needs a designer. The theist is a fool if he doesn't then apply that logic to the designer itself. This leads to an infinite regress, and demonstrates that postulating god to explain existence is a logically unsound move.

 

So if we are to posit any thing at all, it would be wise to choose those forms which allow us the greatest latitude.

 

Nothing existed before the big bang, therefore what's considered nothing or space would be the eternal uncreated God.

Here's a quote from the God Particle by noble winning physicist Leon Lederman.

In the very beginning, there was a void, a curious form of vacuum, a nothingness containing no space, no time, no matter, no light, no sound. Yet the laws of nature were in place and this curious vacuum held potential. A story logically begins at the beginning, but this story is about the universe and unfortunately there are no data for the very beginnings--none, zero. We don't know anything about the universe until it reaches the mature age of a billion of a trillionth of a second. That is, some very short time after creation in the big bang. When you read or hear anything about the birth of the universe, someone is making it up--we are in the realm of philosophy. Only God knows what happened at the very beginning.

 

Well am not trying to proof there is god.


Am just saying no one is wrong no one is wright its a stalemate. But really how much do we understand of our reality, maybe we have some limitations in the maximum level of understanding we can achieve do to our senses . And how many time science had to reevaluate its understanding of certain phenomenons. I mean how can we be sure there is nothing new to be discover.


Who knows what a black hole is,its funny how it works just sux all the information around it just like a human mind and no one knows how these two work do they. Who's to say that some statistically charged cloud of matter in space is not thinking in some way I mean no one knows what exactly is consciousness, so many question still need to be asked and answered it would be foolish to ignore all the possibility's.


I know the above probably is not true and more likely just plain crazy but seriously the last time u read or heard something new about science how sane did it seem to u?

 

Monkey boy, I don't know what you are getting at but to me the idea of god is totally useless and essentially unintelligible. It does not explain anything at all, and it does not reduce the mystery of the universe in any way. It is actually a bad idea because people think that it has explanatory power when it really doesn't.

In regard to the part of my post that you quoted, I don't see how what I said relates to what you are saying, but I want to point out that the purpose of my post was to attack the common thought process underlying the reason for postulating god or a creator.

 

Life is meaningless without a God. Otherwise we're on a one way trip to nothingness.

Believing in God doesn't mean that one needs to be against the scientific method. At the same time accepting science doesn't mean a person has to be against spiritual experience and knowledge.

You were arguing that if God exists then who created him and I wanted to point out that most people consider God uncreated, eternal and separate from the created universe.

 

wait, how is life meaningless without a god? I don't believe in god, I'm an atheist, and my life is full of meaning and fun... I live by MY rules and commandments, and I give my own life meaning.
The reason for life is to live and have fun.

 

...but still for what?... the only thing to look forward to is eventual death.

 

we're not talking about the existence of an afterlife, are we? just existance of a god...
and really, that's why you believe in god? because the idea of nothingness after death scares you?
Its reality, and that's simply how it is. You're born, you live, you die.

 

The meaning of life without god is obvious. The meaning of life is to be alive. What a wondrous thing that out of all of the atoms in the universe we get to be a part of that incredibly tiny number of atoms that compose human beings. To get an idea of how tiny that number is consider that there are more atoms in one teaspoon of water than there are teaspoons of water in the Atlantic ocean.

And yes you are right most people do consider god to be uncreated and eternal but that doesn't make them right. Look at the logic: Why does the universe need a creator? Because it is incredible that it should exist at all especially at this level of complexity. Why should we not apply this same logic to the creator itself and demand the same explanation of it and so on to infinity?

 

I am just a novice on meditation but still.

http://www.meditationiseasy.com/mCorner/how_meditation_started.htm

Check out the death meditaion technic on the left of the page.

 

So...don't look forward at all. Look at the present.

 

Absolutely correct NotDeadYet. Where did people get the silly idea that they must look forward to something else?

 

Life is a party, have fun!