Sick of the liberal media

These crimes are neither representative of most American soldiers (and actions) in Iraq nor morally comparable to the gruesome murders carried out by the guerrilla "defenders."

 

If not for these terrorist thugs, our occupation could have ended long ago.

This is the lament of the conquer throughout the ages. When you say ‘occupation’ what do you mean?

Their goal is to create another Taliban-style haven for exporting Islamic fascism.


Once more the simplistic approach. One faction might be thinking that but there are many different factions that often hate each other just as much as they do the infidel. These different factions all have there own agendas, the Americans are just the best – militarily -equipped faction.

If they cared about the Iraqi people, why would they murder someone like Magaret Hassan who spent 30 years of her life helping them?


Oh come on if the US ‘cared about’ the people of Latin America it would not have supported governments that have killed aid workers, union workers, nuns, priests, journalists, and just about anyone of a left wing inclination that raised their heads above the parapet for well over 30 years. Do you know the history of the current US ambassador to Iraq?

I'm not sure why I'm even trying to reason with such reprobate minds. It's ridiculous to to have to argue what should be obvious to anyone with the slightest moral sensibility.

This is what happens in a destabilised country, many people warned the neo-con’s that this could happen including a US State Department report and a UK Parliament security committee. Even someone as stupid as me warned that it could happen. Then the idiots running this show made one fuck up after another making the situation virtually inevitable. You reap what you fucking sow, talk about what should have been fucking obvious well this situation was fucking obvious to many of us. Oh it might not be morally pleasing to you well I’m not too fucking happy about it myself but I think it a bit bloody rich getting a lesson in morals from someone that supported an enterprise that was so obviously undertaken for such ‘moral’ reasons as power and self interest. If you were not so high up on your moral horse you might be able to smell the shit this whole Iraqi affair stinks of.
http://www.freep.com/news/nw/war16e_20041016.htm


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I have argued before that the manipulation of information was used to convince Americans to become involved in Vietnam. And that the reasons for going there and the policy undertaken were overly simplistic having not taking into account Vietnamese history and aspirations.

The Iraq invasion was sold to the American people on the grounds of a link with 9/11 that was as mythical as the Tonkin incident that allowed the US government to escalate the Vietnam ‘police action’. And a threat from Saddam that has been shown to be as credible as the domino effect was in getting the US involved in Indochina.

As I’ve pointed out before the situation in Iraq was a lot more complex than seemed to be understood by those wanting the action. It seemed to me that it was over reliant on the belief that being ‘anti-Saddam’ would be enough just as there was an over reliance on being just ‘anti-Communist’ in Vietnam.

It is one of the themes of the Vietnam war that many Americans went to the country believing that they were saving the people from ‘communism’ but once there found that they were not treated as saviours but that many Vietnamese didn’t seem to want them there and seemed hostile to them. This caused a lot of resentment and a mistrust of the people they were there to protect and help. Increasingly the reports coming out of Iraq are of disillusioned and resentful soldiers that don’t believe they are being treated as these peoples ‘liberators’ but as occupiers and oppressors.

Just as the Vietnam war produced atrocities on both side, so will this conflict. And just as the US government wanted to highlight Viet cong terrorist crimes, so the present admin will the crimes of the insurgence.

The thing is somehow people want us to choose sides ‘for us or against us’ I say no a plague on all you houses. I think the dogmatic Islamists are crazy but so do I think the people Colin Powell called ‘fucking crazies’ the dogmatic neo-cons.

The truth is that attacking Iraq the way they did for the reasons they did (the real ones on the stated ones) they have not helped moderate reformist Muslims job any easier but they have greatly helped the very fundamentalist that should have been marginlized and contained.


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Neither are most Iraqi's cutting off people's heads.

And are you trying to blame these people for using guerrilla tactics? Do you epxect them to line up in the streets for combat while our superior weapons slaughter them?

And our torturing innocent captives is morally comparable to the Iraqi's capture and killing of innocent civilians. We are supposed to be the better country. Their actions does not mean we are okay to do similar. How are we going to win over the Iraqi people that way?

 

That's my point. These butchers are not representing the Iraqi people.

If they supported anything resembling a popular grassroots movement, I would expect them to organize politically for the upcoming elections. Their whole purpose is to prevent the establishment of a stable, democratic government. Moreover, "guerrilla" is a generous description of their tactics. They don't merely ambush soldiers; their primary targets are relief and development workers and civil infrastructure.

How many prisoners have we beheaded?

The Abu Gharib crimes are being investigated and prosecuted, whereas the brutality of the "insurgents" is standard operating procedure.

 

Blah blah blah, same old crap from Huck. Look, you can fall for all the american wartime propaganda if you like, but I prefer to weigh things objectivly before coming to my conclusions about them.

I put myself in their shoes, best I can. How would I feel if another country invaded us, destroying our cities, were torturing our civilians for information, rid us of our culture, trying to set up a from of gov't they think best, and expects us to accept it? I would be pissed as hell.

We don't make decisions for the rest of the world. We don't get to decide for civilians across the globe. If they want to rebel against Saddam, and want our help, we help them (which we failed to do when they wanted it). Then we help them set up their gov't. A type of gov't that THEY want. No one made these decisions for America when we wanted our freedom.

 

I don't know the answer to this, but; do the Iraqi people even want a democracy? Do they understand what it is, how it works, how to organize that grassroots movement? I'm inclined to think that they equate democracy with the US, and don't want anything at all to do with it.

I guess we'll see. The current polls have religious leaders beating Allawi by considerable margin.

 

"People like Maggie Sugar are the same sort of moral imbeciles that cheered the homicidal Khmer Rouge as liberators."

Interesting that Huck should bring up the Khmer Rouge because some argue that


"U.S. support of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge is thoroughly documented in an article in CAQ magazine (formerly Covert Action Quarterly) by Australian journalist John Pilger, "The Long Secret Alliance: Uncle Sam and Pol Pot."* Some quotations from that article:

"The US not only helped to create conditions that brought Cambodia's Khmer Rouge to power in 1975, but actively supported the genocidal force, politically and financially. By January 1980, the US was secretly funding Pol Pot's exiled forces on the Thai border. The extent of this support -- $85 million from 1980-86 -- was revealed 6 years later in correspondence between congressional lawyer Jonathan Winer, then counsel to Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation."​

"In 1981, Pres. Carter's national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, said, "I encouraged the Chinese to support Pol Pot. The US", he added, "winked publicly" as China sent arms to the Khmer Rouge(KR) through Thailand."​

"In 1980, under US pressure, the World Food Program handed over food worth $12 million to the Thai Army to pass on to the KR. According to former Assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke,'20,000 to 40,000 Pol Pot guerrillas benefited. This aid helped restore the KR to a fighting force, based in Thailand, from which it destabilized Cambodia for more than a decade.'"​

"In 1982, the US and China, supported by Singapore, invented the Coalition of the Democratic Government of Kampuchea, which was, as Ben Kiernan pointed out, neither a coalition, nor democratic, nor a government, not in Kampuchea. Rather, it was what the CIA calls a 'master illusion.' ... Cambodia's former ruler, Prince Norodom Sihanouk, was appointed its head; otherwise little changed. The KR dominated the two "non-communist" members, the Sihanoukists and the Khmer Peoples' National Liberation Front (KPNLF). From his office at the UN, Pol Pot's ambassador, the urbane Thereon Parish, continued to speak for Cambodia. A close associate of Pol Pot, he had in 1975 called on Khmer expatriates to return home, whereupon many of them disappeared."​

(I have also put another article from Covert Action Information Bulletin No. 34, Summer 1990, on this subject: Jack Colhoun, "On the side of Pol Pot: U.S. Supports Khmer Rouge".*

The United States government pressured the United Nations to retain Pol Pot's representative as the "official" representative of Cambodia to the UN, to keep the pro-Vietnamese government out."

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/pol/polpotmontclarion0498.html



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Hmmm, speaking of people of defending themselves WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MARINE WAS DOING WHEN HE SAW WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A DEAD IRAQI SIT UP AND REACH INSIDE HIS COAT! he was defending himself, he saw an iraqi terrorist reach for what for all he knew was a gun so he shot him. simple as that. In war people get killed, thats the terrible truth, people die. You cant bash the hell out of a marine that was off fighting for some sick cause against his will and defended himself.

 

Wait a second... good God, look what the Neo Cons have done. Now, every Iraqi citzen is magically a terrorist? How do you know that man ever terrorized people?

Just a rant...