Buildings

Hey all,

Can those who are there, describe what type of buildings they have help construct on homesteads or communities?

A little clarification of that, although there are many websites that talk about various ways you can build things, and everyone has their own opinions, most places you go present a biased view towards their own choices and tend to spin their ideas.

What I would like to see, is posts from people who can look around them, or walk outside and look around them, and see what their attempt at building has come to since they built it.

Specifically, what I am looking for are the tips that you have gathered while doing it and the lessons you learned in what not to do and why.

Thanks

 

Small buildings (8x12 ft max) don't require permits.

 

Ho Tom,

Was in the construction trades because back when, few who wanted to live intentionally knew how to build. While I have not yet built a teepee, I have studied them and have the plans, have an abundance of appropriate saplings, and a sturdy sewing machine. Those and Yurts...neither require building permits as long as you do not have some kind of heavy duty anchoring into the ground system that the zoning officer can point at as to permanency of the building.

That said...hehe - neither of thenmdo I have direct experience having built in totality....but have shared in the actual process; both with hands on and watching.

Log cabins are fairly simple and cordwood is my own preferred method of building though I have enjoyed adobe and stone building too....the latter of which there are several methods.
.

Bought a school bus filled with seconds in industrial building glass...most tempered....most you have to build custom frames for....and then a shit load of cast off framed windows....but alas, as you know too well, the lack of people that are motivated.

I have always preferred building sans right angles....feels more in tune with spontaneity and the flexibility for adaptability that I See as being the survival tools of tomorrow fast becoming today.

Been too long since I have done much by way of normal construction, most things being cobbed together (as in jury rigged or mickey moused, not the earth straw method [which is a good method as long as your soil supports it- do not ship it in ...lol]).straw bale needs a timber frame structure to make it real, and the old poles in the ground is always real simple and fairly cheap.
there were some people in N.Mexico who were firing adobe structures making them ceramic....which was interesting for the area.

So much in building is common sense and what works for your area and for the materials and tools you have on hand. Each mothod usually has a plethora of good information available by people teaching the method, who have come across all manners of challenges and learned to work with them....usually better information than 1 who has only done it several times.

You are always your own best prognosticator on what you can handle materials tools and money wise....prefer metal roofs....the rain always puts me to sleep.

Blessings

Namaste

 

Building permits, zoning officers...

One of my main criteria in finding land was that it had to be in an un-organized township. Although provincial codes are technical in effect, there are no inspectors for un-organized areas (for now).

Health codes for wells and septics are inspected, as are electrical installations that connect to the grid.

I doubt there is a building method that I haven't read about, watched videos of, and talked to people about (usually past their endurance level).

What I was hoping for when I started this thread so very long ago was to get people's impressions of things that they had done in the past, after watching them age and wear over years.

I've built with cob and straw already, and have a feel for the way it goes in terms of construction. I have a pretty good idea what finished projects would look like... what I don't know however, is what it is like to live day in and day out with those types of structures. Does snow drifting against the walls damage them, does the sun side crack more then the shade side, the things you pick up on over years of dealing with it.

As to the rain on the tin roof. It's awesome, we have it here somewhat, although with the ceilings insulated we lose most of it. But the small cabin is just bare tin on the inside and it definately gives that effect.

I have to admit though, along those lines, the best place to enjoy a rain storm even better with thunder and lighting is inside a greenhouse. It's one of the reasons that before we found this place, we had been planning on putting up a hoop greenhouse over a trailer with a woodstove for heating it all. We would have had outdoor area to sit and lounge even in the winter.

A greenhouse is still planned, we even have the plastic for it that will last at least 4 or 5 more years.

 

I would think modern building materials would last the longest?

 

Really? So you think the skyscrapers will outlast the pyramids do you?

 

Yah tom,
I am aware that you apply fairly thorough research before leaping...unuasual as that is in these times and was one of the reasons I highly value your input, even as i enjoy your general dry and acerbic replies (runs close to my own impulses - just learned as moderator to tone down my sarcastic nature).
I have thought of using the highly impact resistant plastics that they use in skyscraper constructive grade "glass"....police used to use a 1/4 in. thick clipboard of the material which would turn a 44 magnum slug at close range..,I wanted to put pyramids of such material on top of the cordwood towers I spoke about., as well as use it for the facing of the mostly underground greenhouse I envisioned...I like the idea of impact resistance and longevity of the material....Not of course the cost.
I planned on putting a work/living space in the greenhouse....of course for zoning purposes (which I must unfortunately deal with) it would be labeled as a work space.
My most favored memories were those of loving (as an edit I must change that o to an i ... not that the o does not apply) in N. Mex. under the stars (no shelter save sleeping bag and heavy duty Viet Nam era rain poncho)....did so in mid winter in the mountains above Santa Fe....with a fair degree of comfort....but that's another story....

Would love to use some of your research and concepts incorporated in whatever we do put together here, whether it be as a homestead or community....which is the self serving why, aside from enjoying your persona, of wanting to maintain contact.

Blessings (hehe ... which are most notably the lessons learned) in your efforts.

Namaste

 

Using other peoples experience is what this was supposed to be about.

I can go outside right now, clear some snow away and see how a bare straw bale, a covered straw bale and even a mud coated strawbale are faring. Same with logs and this and that and so on...

I can do that everyday for the next 50 years... and I will know what 50 years of wear and tear do to each...

OR

I could ask others who did the same things 50 years ago, and know today...

Personally, the first option there, seems like a good way to waste 50 years. That might be fine if I thought I would live to be 1000... but seriously, I'll be shocked to my toes if I hit 100, hell, I'll be mildly surprised if I make it another 20... So... I ask, and ask and ask again, even though 95% of the time, what I get are the answers that people throw out without putting a second's worth of thought into...

On the matter of longevity of materials and such.... look to history for clues...

I wasn't just being a sarcastic ass when I made the skyscraper/pyramid crack... The pyramids have been around for 1000's of years... there are temples and other buildings all across the world that are literally thousands and thousands of years old. Some of them have had almost zero maintenance over that time... and some of them are in better shape then most buildings that we build today. There are almost no 'modern' buildings that we have around us today, that will even exist in 500 years, let alone a couple of thousand.

Walk away from the majority of modern buildings today and shut off their man-made energy input and see what happens... Up here, one winter without heat will destroy almost any house that is built by 'modern' standards.

Is technology and the products of it a good thing? Sometimes, but only when used appropriately.

And to judge that appropriateness, we need information. Which brings me back to the original point....

I would love to hear from people who can share direct info on various natural building methods that they have used and maintained over time (at least a decade).

 

Thats a bit to the extreme but I get your point.

Who wants to live in a house made of big rocks?

 

If I didnt have to move those big rocks, I wouldn't mind it... although I really think it would be simpler to find a cave if you really wanted to live in such a place.

And yes, it was an extreme example. But a really valid one. We get all hung up on 'new' products and methods, and let the old ways slide into history, whether there is something useful there or not.

Nothing is better or worse, just because it is new or old...

Look at the idea of sod houses, or 'soddies'. An extremely simple and effective building method that had drawbacks, like being really difficult to keep dry. Using a combination of that idea and new materials like rubber membranes, it starts to become a very feasible thing for today.

 

Exactly! I wouldn't mind living inside rocks if it was like a regular modern house inside I'm deffinately spoiled by modernism running water and floors lol

 

I think you're on to your own answer there Tom, looking to history for the answers as far as longevity is concerned. Just looking around the world I'd have to say that either rammed earth, adobe or "big rock" homes seem to hold up the best.

Those sandstone slabs I was mining out with hand tools in S. Missouri would have made a fairly decent shelter, mortared together with the local clay's I had washed out, unfortunatly I never got the chance to do it as "Family members" decided it was more important I get out and find work where there was none to be found... Eh' good riddance to them, I'll find another place to do it eventually.

As far as finishing interiors is concerned, shouldn't be much of a trick to lay chicken wire as an anchor and paste over with raw clay or plaster (Baked and crushed Gypsum) or whatever is your greatest available resource for such is over any sort of surface be it sandstone, cobb or whatnot.

If I stick around this Hostel long enough I'll hopefully be doing some simple fired adobe structures. (Just stacked dried bricks with the wood fuel filling the gaps.) Or I'll just end up doing it wherever I end up next provided there's an abundance of clay available.

 

Rammed earth has always been a big one for me... As long as it is combined (for this area) with proper insulation (in terms of Rvalue not necessarily modern) and earth berming.

Actually I'm shocked that more people in your area aren't more into earth berming... earthquake prone places are the ones that benefit most from them. That isn't to say it doesn't happen there of course, just that it isn't main stream.

 

I forgot... your post made me wonder something.

Firing clay bricks brought this to mind...

I'll assume you know what an earth oven is?

If not;


Basically, just a huge, shaped, one piece fired brick...

Could you do this on a large scale? As in build a hut (250sqft or so) out of earth clay and 'fire' the whole building as one piece?

 

I'd think so but just for safety's sake I'd be prone to adding a few brickwork archway's and support pillars to add structural support.

As far as why more folks dont do rammed earth around here,,, I just think it's on in vogue enough or people would be all over it Actually where I'm at (Old mining town) folk's have been pretty creative with structures in the past, using old salvaged railroad ties if not simply living in old "renovated" placer mines, sadly the trend these day's seems to be mobile homes and pre-fab. But there are a few places which make ya' do a double take.

And as far as insulation for rammed earth,,, just layer up 2 or 3 walls (Might make windows a hassle)?? Incorporate some flues from a wood stove to heat them? Layer the outside with black stones to help absorb more solar energy?

If ya' have any sort of clay on your land, it's really not too hard to wash clean, but the trouble may be no filler sand I'd guess?

And to Tom & OldWolf, not long ago I put a link up in the non-fiction books section to google's full downloadable copy of "Wagners Chemical Technology" Ton's of really down to earth technology from 1872, easy reading and has a good chain of nifty titles linked in the "related" listing I'm certain you two would find interesting, thought provoking or otherwise useful.

 

Well, the insulation part is where I drift from rammed earth...

It goes like this...

Insulate rammed earth...
Use straw bales...
Straw bales have to be covered in earth plaster
The earthen plaster is way too easy of a thing to 'sculpt' so it has to be thick
Straw bales with posts and beams will be almost as strong and last almost as long (ie longer then I'll be alive) as solid rammed earth and be extremely well insulated.

So lets skip all that ramming and do just straw bales and cob... lol

Sculpt the roof, exterior north east and west walls, to shed water down below the base of the foundation with cob, with an extra heavy does of clay in the outer layers where they will be below the berm... add in some good drainage...

Berm it minus the south wall, do a green roof over it and you have a home that will outlast our lifetimes and most importantly, won't self destruct if not constantly fed with power.

Clay and sand aren't a problem, neither is natural gravel, well no problem besides work... lol

Actually, my biggest concern has always been the foundation of it.. and I seem to keep coming back to using rammed earth tires for it.

 

The only "Ummm, wait a sec there,,," I've ever had against Cob or hay bale structures is mainly a concern of fire safety so to be honest I haven't let my research go too deep into the technicalities of it other than to see it as a great building material for non smoker / blacksmith / Chemistry enthusiast types.

 

Cob

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cob_(material)

 

I've got a soft spot for stonework I guess,



Charcoal kilns built in 1877 out in Wildrose canyon CA. Still standing mainly due to their short lived usage as charcoal kilns, but I could easily envision myself building a lofted 2 story unit.

Had a pretty good start towards one for a while there,,,



Just one slab at a time, it get's easier as ya' get the hang of how to get a split line started,,,



And the clay washing can be done with eye's closed.

 

How big are those kilns?

And you keep mentioning washing the clay? And those pics.. is the clay where you are hard and dry??