who call them selfs hippies

You think I'm being condescending by using the term "young man"? If that's the case, in reality you're just barely out of boyhood. I'm showing respect by not calling you "boy"

I agree with Shales' last post so I guess I can fuck off too, eh?

If you want condescension....

Back to Middle school for you;

English 101

trend (trnd)n.1. The general direction in which something tends to move.
2. A general tendency or inclination. See Synonyms at tendency.
3. Current style; vogue: the latest trend in fashion.

The intransitive verb definitions were left out as they have no bearing in this conversation.

Movement (mvmnt)a. A series of actions and events taking place over a period of time and working to foster a principle or policy: a movement toward world peace.
b. An organized effort by supporters of a common goal.

History 101

Timeline of The Hippie Movement

January 1960 - Bob Dylan, age 19 plays at the Wha in Greenwich Village and visits Woody Guthrie in the Hospital
July 1960- Sidney Cohen's survey of 5,000 individuals who had taken LSD 25,000 times concludes it is safe
Aug 9, 1960 - Timothy Leary, 39, tries psilocybin mushrooms in Cuernavaca

Feb 18,1961 - Bertrand Russell, 89, leads march of 20,000 & sit-down of 5,000 anti-nuke outside U.K. Defense Ministry and is jailed for 7 days
Mar 1961- Richard Alpert (Ram Dass) takes psilocybin as part of the Harvard Project
Apr 11,1961 - Bob Dylan's first billed performance at Gerde's Folk City
July 1961- Ban The Bomb Demonstrations start worldwide

Feb 16,1962 - Boston SANE & fledgling SDS hold first anti-nuclear march on Washington with 4000-8000 protesters
Sept 1962- Timothy Leary founds International Foundation for Internal Freedom (IFIF)
to promote LSD research & publish The Psychedelic Review.

July 1963 - Timothy Leary hosts Freedom House groups in Zihuatanejo, Mexico, Dominica & then Antigua
July 1963- Newport Folk Festival July 26-28, includes Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Phil Ochs and Pete Seeger
Sept 1963- Timothy Leary, Richard Alpert, and other Harvard alumni LSD researchers move to the Hitchcock's estate in Millbrook, New York.
Nov 22,1963 - Aldous Huxley dies while tripping on LSD (intentionally!)

May 1964 - Bob Dylan's first visit to England, meets The Beatles & Rolling Stones; turns The Beatles on to marijuana.
July 1964 - Millbrook LSD sessions with Timothy Leary
July 1964- Ken Kesey's First Magic Bus Trip to NY
Aug 1964- Ken Kesey & his Merry Pranksters visit Timothy Leary & Richard Alpert at Millbrook.

Mar 3,1965 - Owsley starts LSD factory, making large quantities of acid available for the first time
Mar 24,1965 - SDS organizes first Vietnam War teach-in at Univ. of Michigan
3000 show up
Apr 2,1965 - Ken Kesey busted for marijuana first time
Apr 17,1965 - SDS leads first anti-Vietwar march in Washington. 25,000 attend including Phil Ochs, Joan Baez and Judy Collins
Aug 1965 - Ken Kesey meets Hunter Thompson who introduces the Hells Angels to the Merry Pranksters; Alan Ginsberg & Richard Alpert are at the party.
Sept 5,1965 - San Francisco writer Michael Fallon applies the term "hippie" to the SF counterculture in an article about the Blue Unicorn coffeehouse where LEMAR (Legalize Marijuana) & the Sexual Freedom League meet, & hippie houses.

Zorba wrote;

I've shown you're incorrect. The movement was happening in the thick of the Civil Rights movement.

That's bullshit. Show me an old newsreel showing that during ANY demonstration.

More bullshit. I'll post this again just so you get it.
July 1960- Sidney Cohen's survey of 5,000 individuals who had taken LSD 25,000 times concludes it is safe
I myself have over 2000 trips and I'm neither crazy nor "a retard"

Get thee educated before taking me on, kid!

Adios nino....shit, I forgot the~

Zen

 

ppl who haev shitty gramer cant call them selfs inteligent

 

lol, you're too literal minded to understand anything about real life.

I've opened a can of worms now, I suppose. That's a figure of speech by the way.

 

Oooo.... pwnd by the Zenmonster.
Now there's a story for your grandkids. Cherish it!

 

Ok...that went over my head. WTF?

Right, If that's so I'd better stop my ministry of doing weddings, funerals, jail visits and counseling. Fuck...all that education for nothing.

Zen

 

Yea, ok...everybody should have a line editor.

Many people post and fly. Grammar has no basis concerning intelligence.

Just another kid with a bullshit post.

Cans of worms...wash em, toss em on the grill and douse em with Texas Pete. Yummy.

Zen

 

Yo like, people should be people Every free man and woman have their own unique free style, and that depends on geographic and knowlidge centers around them. This makes us all unique free spririts with our own upbrinigns and thus lords of our particular style and we all have a particular terrain that we feel more comfortable with, and a specific music and etc. The point is not to find a sterotype to look up to, but to make your own type, remember your roots, and just be a unique hippie

Because hippie is more than just, a word. More than just a definition for the 60s. As we expand in numbers and styles we really owe it to our roots like marley, lennon, beatles, janis, jimmi, jerry, the grateful dead, phish, moe, tea leaf green, yonder mountain stringband, and any other number of others These are what help us form our own beliefs and these are what formed the first generationa of uniques styles which where lumped upon and expanded on by the next generation, and now we are trying to hard to copy a 60s type world, when we regrettably, and thankfully, are in a whole different era no This is th 2000s my brothers. We must evolve as people and spritually and without trying to label ourselves or any one esle live life the way you see fit, be in good company, and just chill Be free.

Be you.

 

You probably should, for the sake of the children.

 

Yeah, you are too literal-minded. Just because the history books call something a movement doesn't make it so. The third definition under trend seems to me to fit the hippie movement perfectly. As to your timeline, I consider most of that part of the beat movement, not the hippie movement; I said that in my last post.

Yeah, but see, here's where reading comprehension comes in handy. I never said anything about acid being unsafe (physically I think it is safe; psychologically I'm not sure) or about the people who take it being retards. I said they act like retards -- big difference. And since you're such an old and wise master, I'll forgive you for not being aware of the connotations the word retard has in today's society: it's pretty much synonymous with idiot, possibly a little stronger.

Oh, I see, you're just trying to educate me. What a great guy you are. All your condescending drivel and word games have a purpose after all: to show how wise you are. I sure hope I end up like you when I grow old. I sure hope that by then I'm smart enough to copy and paste definitions from the dictionary to win an argument; I hope that by then I'll be able to hedge words like you to make it seem like I know what I'm talking about. When I can do all that, then I'll know I'm old and wise enough to condescend to younger people when they disagree with me.

If you can't discuss a topic without resorting to shit like that, I don't think you're in a position to talk down to anyone.

 

It's more or less people who don't have any idea what being a hippie actually means. They just like the style and like to smoke dope; maybe they like Bob Marley too. They're posers because to them it is a style: a trend. Just a fashion statement. I think you know what I'm saying.

I don't really have much interest in being a part of any movements, so I'm not too worried. I wouldn't have any problem being part of one if it was based on something I believed in and didn't encompass the entirety of my life. I'd have no problem being part of a movement in regard to one issue, or a group of issues, but I don't want to be part of some big societal movement that dictates how I should live and act, what I should wear, what I should eat, what I should say, what music I should listen to, etc. That's just bullshit for people who like to be led. I thought you 'hippies' were supposed to support individuality...

Whatever. You call me arrogant because I disagree with you; I think you're acting unbelievably arrogant. I don't like movements, and more importantly (to you), I don't like your movement, and I'm here trying to explain why that is. If you think that makes me arrogant, perhaps I should cut/paste some dictionary definitions for you.

 

So tell me, what *does* being a hippie actually mean, and how can you be so sure that they're all just in it for the fashions? I read a lot of the younger people's posts here and they're all expressing beliefs in the basic hippie philosophy. What makes you worthy to pass judgement on their sincerity?

But, according to your arguments, you do have a problem with neo-hippies who express a desire to be part of something *they* believe in. You pass judgemnent on them, calling them posers, based on your own perspective that it is better not to believe in that - presumably, because you think it's some kind of totalitarianist mind-control cult. The hippie movement never dictated anything to anyone, unless it was to tell Nixon to get out of Vietnam. The so-called hippie fashion ran from Carnaby Street to Free Church Destitute and everything in between. You think the modern hippies show no sense of individuality or desire to be something of their own creation? Well, I can tell you that I never saw a single person with dreads in all of my travels through major hippie enclaves. The style of this new generation of hippies is something different, and good on 'em for it.

It's becoming obvious that your basic argument against the hippies that you call posers is that you personally find it repulsive. Your attitude is not one of acceptance, it's one of rejection. That's what will forever separate you from hippies (which I'm sure doesn't bother you in the least) and why you will never understand them, although I'm sure you *think* you understand them perfectly. An attitude of rejection tends to wrap a person up in chains of their own creation. The pity of it is, people like you always tend to think that it makes them individualistic and they become quite proud of that, as though being and army of one is a desirable position to be in. You are not so much individualistic as you are reclusive and exclusive. Good luck with that.

I don't call you arrogant because you disagree with me. That's just an easy cop out for you to try and negate my points. I call you arrogant, because you pass judgment on others without any knowledge of them or their beliefs, simply because you do not share their beliefs. That is arrogance. You can't say anything more to me that will mean more than that last paragraph of yours. You don't like movements and more importantly, you don't like our movement. That pretty much sums up your entire argument - which is all about what you like and what you want and what you believe. That leaves no common ground for us to come together. Continuing to debate it with you will produce no favorable results. It's already degenerating into name calling.

One last question for you.
Are you hanging out here in hopes of pointing out how ridiculous you think we all are, or are you here to try and change our minds? Either way, it's pretty much a lost cause for you. We've survived being taunted by experts, we're certainly not going to cave in to a snot-nosed kid with attitude.

 

Ive been kind of following this thread trying to keep out of the silly and personal attacks- everything from ones spelling, to ones hygiene has been brought up- -jeez * *

I feel that maybe you posters -friends> I hope -> would like the point of view from a reluctant Vietnam vet.
I was born in 1950 in NYC and really didnt consider myself a hippie in 67,when even though I was hanging out at the new coffee shops and circulating with the new breed of free-thinkers that had popped up the Village area Downtown a few years before. Bob Dylan, and other folkies had already pissed off the folk community and by the time I was 18 , he and the others had stopped playing the famous spots such as"Folk City" ..etc..and had moved on to larger venues.
However, back then you could really feel the world changing(whether you liked it or not)-There were some who were satisfied with the status quo- and many of us who saw this gap in the generations, as a chance to make a difference in making the world a better place.- - -Sure the civil rights mov,t had started already, and protests of all kinds ( from womens rights, to unions, to the draft had already been rooted by 1968- but we saw the need to keep it going- -not waste the efforts of the folks before us.
I stupidly quit college (BC) &was shortly drafted into the USArmy-Now this was a real dilemma, I had my conservative family on one side pushing me to do the "right thing," problem was I saw the right thing as to oppose the draft (which by the way ,was on its way out-because of a strong movement) and not show up that morning on Whitehall St. Not really being a radical or a hippie yet, I was just some kid who smoked pot and was starting to grow -up,ya know
Well, I did show up- & after a few months in Texas- I was off to experience some of the most scary situations of my life. As a medic, E-4(corp) attached to the 179th ASHC, a CH-47 unit, we mostly were in and around, Camp Holloway & Pleiku, in the Central Highlands. After enduring noisy ,frightening light shows for what seemed like every night for 13 months- its was "Good Job son" and back to the real world.
Now - this is when I really changed- for both good, bad,and ugly. The change in me to the hippie life was almost immeadiate. The changing ideals I had just 18 months before now really had the opportunity to blossom. Volenteer work, traveling the country,& getting involved with different political views were all part of the new me* *
Right away I got involved with veterans against the war and was very involved.I was involved with the VA in helping vets with the transition back, that is still lacking today<the bad ** -Then the ugly part >>>
Unfortunelty, I had been introduced to a lot of pain medicine(& dope) overseas, and at this time in NYC ,there was more or less a heroin epidemic. Much of the early seventies I wasted running the streets talking a good game for change, but I couldnt change myself.- This is a peroid that Im not proud of nor ashamed- it was what it was-

The above is just my story of a few years- I sure thier are plenty of us, whose lives were interupped by situations that were out of thier control.
However, just as I respect the vet, I respect the courage it took to stay behind- and risk the consequences- -all while keeping the movement going. It certainly just wasnt all about drugs, or about getting laid- -there was a real political crisis that needed to be addressed back then. I believe that the younger people of today, have the older of thier brethan to thank for taking the first hit- for going out on a limb to change the way certain things, people, and ideas, are looked at today. OK-not all we did came to fruition but as some of us got older, life just got in the way. I think when the torch was passed, for the majority of the younger generation , apathy had already set in.
Heres hoping that we all can get things spinning in the right direction

Jjack

 

I've made my ideas very clear by now, but you don't seem to be capable of or interested in discussing this in a serious way. You spend most of your time telling me what I'm saying, which doesn't make a lot of sense if you think really hard about it. If you want to play word games that's fine, but find someone else to do it with.

 

Thanx for your input here Jack. That war was not only opposed by the "flower children" but by Vietnam Veterans Against the War and their voice I think had more weight.

I avoided the draft and the war by joining the Air Force three days after graduating. Did mostly office work for 4 years. My HS buddy and fellow artist/dissident went on to college and when he graduated got drafted.

He saw combat and did a sea change in attitude; became one of those who said we should not have quit the war but shoulda put more effort into winning. I still say we shoulda never gone there in the first place, that it was U.S. hubris to think we could do what the French Colonialists gave up on.

A lot of us went thru changes in that era. Some were ruined by the circumstances.

Here in Miami we see a lot of the vets from that time, old men like me living on the streets, in and out of the VA hospital, never recovered from the horrors or the drugs that consumed their lives.

 

Great insights from yet another perspective on the era, JJ.
Thanks for the contribution, then *and* now.

 

Trigcove** Shale -
Thanks for your kind words. I find when someone of the same age understands the trials and tribulations of what we went through it sort of helps me to validate & even accept some of the shit I did. -
Too many of the younger people , seem not to recognize that many of the actions that we took back then came with real consequences.
****************
To some of the younger posters >
Of course many were just along for the ride. Hell, loose sex, no-work, and using drugs was the easy but immature way to go-and unfortunately the media jumped all over that- and helped crush and stigmatized a movement that was very effective, and under-rated by all our government branches . The prove was in thier paranoia

However, many of us were truly difference makers. This is why it makes me crazy to see (even my son ) these younger kids complaining about Bush, bitching about the two conflicts going on, whining about the corporate greed of Wall st -well ya know what??-
Do Some-Thing About It !!!
NO-one is saying you have to charge the stock exchange, no-one is saying to march into Obama,s office- - but>> what can be done is- get up , get out there & make yourselves noticed. Get organized. :boxing_smiley: Get ready for a fight *

We had a blue print- it needs to be gone over-and tinkered with- changed a bit,if you will, to better suit these times
Much of our fight came from a fire deep in the belly- I dont see anything near that from these kids who like to wear the "Hippie" moniker.Many of us are just getting too old to really give a shit as to what anyone wants to be labeled as. Too old to sacrifice any more time worrying about the country,s direction. We did the best we could- was it enough?? Of course not. -but- if the younger folks would pick up where we left off....
Now ,please- - I certainly dont think Im better or any different than anyone here -young or old. In fact I will mention that a long time heroin addiction , brought me down a long time ago and Ive been on a methadone program for close to 1/2 my life- so I make no judgements-- -- I dont use labels like "Hippie,freak,Yuppie,Yippie,fuckin yappy & yahoo-ey or in my case" ex-hippie or ex-junkie(which some actually call me)-
they may sound kool but they are media creations- and imo the media has grown into a monster that is uncontrollable.
O-Kay -I went way further than I ever wanted to on this, but "what I have writtin,I have written-" - all done-
Thanks for the venting space,
jjack

 

I don't call myself a hippie. I don't call myself anything really..cause i feel like that's putting a preconceived judgment on who I am and how I will be in the future....some people call me a hippie..and I don't get mad or offended...I just tell them that I'm me....and I like certain things that could be considered hippie-ish.
But I also don't like things that are considered hippy-ish...like drugs...I have no interest in allowing a drug to affect how I think because I then have become the limits of that drug and can do no more than it will allow me...I think I'm capable of more than that..

I could go on, but you get my point.

 

People can call themselves whatever they want... I don't care. If someone calls themselves a hippie, then I really don't see why that should bother anyone else.

 

I dont call myself a hippy but others do. Im here because the "hippy" or "Psychadelic" lifestyle fits me

 

ditto i don't care