Questions for Christians about Hell.

Do you go to hell immediately after you die, or is it the lake of burning fire Jesus creates here on earth when he returns to sort the herd?

If the lake of fire is forever, how can you expect to have a kingdom of love and peace with all that torment going on right in front of you?

If you believe in being judged right after you're killed, I can safely assume you don't believe in the rapture. Then why believe in the bible as truth at all, if there's no significance to the end times, the tribulation, and the resurrection of all men from the grave to be sorted and judged?

Why do you believe in the same punishment for everyone when it is stated in the bible that sinners will be judged according to their degree of sin?

 

No one can answer that question because it's all been made up.

I find it funny how a group of people can believe in hell, deliverance and God- but refuse to accept the reality of the dinosaurs!

Anyways, I am keen to here the answer to your question, to each his or her own after all.

 

Most people here don't believe in the concept of hellfire. Actually the word used isn't hell at all in the Bible. You've got words like "Sheol" in Hebrew which means grave which is used a lot as a place for the dead (but from the King James Bible onwards, is very often translated simply as "hell"), "Tartarus" from Greek used once in the new Testament which means sort of a dark abyss. Also there is "Hades". The bible teaches (especially in the old testament) that if you do not go to heaven, you go to "Sheol", so basically that you die and go to a sortof big, dark grave. "Gehanna" is a word used in the new testament which is like the modern idea of hellfire. This is the idea of the raging lake of fire that people have now labelled as hell in general, but it is the destination of the wicked, which is different from the idea of "Sheol", the abode of the dead. From this I believe "Gehanna" will be for ones such as Satan, as he will be thrown into a pit of fire in the end days, and those akin to Satan. The rest will go to wherever "Sheol" is.

Also, @ Imaginary Being, dinosaurs are in several places in the Bible. There's nothing to stop a Christian accepting dinosaurs.

 

Also, to answer your first question, the two places the dead go to now are "Hades" and "Abraham's bosom", which seem quite boring places as they are just waiting areas of sorts that the dead lay before judgement. Only 3 people avoided this death in the old testament and that was because they were sent to heaven alive. Unless you live in the time of the judgement, you won't be judged straight after your death. Those who have died (which is a pretty massive amount of people considering) will be brought back and judged.

 

Look at how smart you are rejecting the strawman you've created!

To the OP:

"Hellfire", as honeyfudge has rightly pointed, is not indicated directly in the Bible; The references to Gehenna I think are not merely symbolic as some suggest. I think hell is real and comes from our rejection of God's love in this life.

If I go to hell the pains I experience will be on my soul until the second coming when my body will be joined with my soul and the pains will be physical. The notions of Gehenna Jesus presents in the bible seem to suggest that the fire will not "consume" the body.

i also think there are two judgements--particular (the first) and second (the general). The particular judgement happens at death while the general takes place after the second coming.

 

I have no idea what that was even supposed to mean. I understand the concept of the Straw man, however I have created, rejected, nor exaggerated anything lol.

Ah well.

 

The Kings James version erroneously translates Sheol into hell. But it never makes sense given the context of what is being said, Sheol in context, is described as a place where thoughts perish and is compared to a dissipating cloud. This sounds very much like Sheol being a state of non-existence.

Adam and Eve in the Bible are described as dust and since sin were brought into the world, then they will return to dust. The Bible seems to be attributing our being as matter.

There are two deaths described in the Bible. The first death is where everyone enters Sheol. Sheol is a state of being dead, but it is also described as rest because it is a state of remembrance. In other words, God of the Bible is said to remember to resurrect all those that have died (Both good and bad). The second death is not described as rest. Ghenna describes the second death because it is where the bones of the dead remained burning with continuous burning/eternal fire - I do believe that this is symbolic - This is to mean, imo, that this death is a state where God will never resurrect those in the second death because the first death is described as a state of rest/sleep; this is the same as saying that they will remain dead eternally. This is also described as eternal punishment because non-existence is attributed to a total disconnect from God since God is what is described as something we move in and have our being...

Jesus has said that prostitutes and thieves will inherit the kingdom of God. There are examples of prostitutes showing hospitality to those in need and God has described this person as righteous.

David sinned many times, but to me, the Bible seems to be saying that the true measure of a person is how much we love and not by how many mistakes that we make.

So in my view, a large majority will gain eternal paradise.

 

Two thumbs up on this post. I'm giving you plus rep too. Great description.

Edit: unable to add your rep atm, will do when I can.

 

lol, I hate those limits. I tried to give you another a couple days ago but it wouldn't let me :toetap05:

Thanks, Honeyfugle :biggrin:

 

What group would that be?

I know of very few Christians that refuse to accept the reality of the dinosaurs, although most of them do believe in God.

 

Like OWB said, very few Christians actually deny the existence (or previous existence) of dinosaurs. The claim that we accept hell but deny this fact is erroneous. You imply that all Christians believe X (that dinosaurs are Stan's ploy to deceive the masses...which is false) and therefore their thoughts concerning Y (hell and God) are not to be considered. It is a straw-man plain and simple.

Find me a source that says the majority of Christians deny dinosaurs (not evolution, because i think even then worldwide anti-evolutionists are still the minority, or close to it) and then maybe I will consider your critique seriously. Until then: Strawman.

 

Pleh, I could argue your straw man point, but it would be futile. Religion is too broad a topic to consider my quip an exaggeration or bigoted philosophy, when the initial question was completely different to the one I posed.

But then I was the one who changed the subject so I will just accept it all.

For the record, it may be down to the person, quite naturally. I had this same conversation almost with a girl a couple of weeks ago, probably hence my undisclosed opinion of it now. I almost wet myself laughing when she told me that information about the dinosaurs, up until then I honestly didn't think any christians were pompous enough to think that. What do you think of the matter?

I can't prove most Christians believe this, but one certainly does. BUT, let me ask you this. If your religious group is denouncing this idea, that you do believe in the dinosaurs and this girl is a nut- then isn't the story of Adam and Eve and the garden of eden, the biggest Straw man of them all.

I mean talk about exaggeration of the truth. We are saying dinosaur, you are saying forbidden fruit, two naked and rather incestuous people and God's intervention within these individuals lives. By the same standard, you have helped me discard the whole of the Christian belief. If you can prove this, then maybe I will take your critique seriously. Until then, Straw Man lol.

 

not being shitty btw, just lost track of where to stand with religious belief :S

 

Well, I will not deny that there are some who believe that dinosaur fossils are a hoax but in my experience they are few and far between. Personally I do not deny the fossil record, I believe that dinosaurs once roamed the Earth but do not agree with some of the conclusions derived from them such as evolution but that is another discussion altogether.

Yes I'm saying; "saying forbidden fruit, two naked and rather incestuous people and God's intervention within these individuals lives" is true and actually happened, although Adam and Eve were not incestuous and although I believe the story actually happened, there are some Christians who believe that the whole story is just a parable.

As for proof that they actually existed, no, I don't have any proof other than the fact the Bible is extremely accurate and so there is reason to believe it is accurate in the case of Adam and Eve as well.

 

Prove the bible was accurate and you would have converted probably the entire planet to the Christian faith.

To bring this full circle, being agnostic, if someone proved the bibles worth to me- then I would become Christian. It has com full circle because I would do this to escape the perils of hell and an eternity of flames.

I'm not hearing knocking anyone's faith mind. I wish I had it, seems to give people peace of mind and I appreciate that.

 

I find the numerous symbols of angels and God separating the grain from the chaff/weeds and throwing the chaff/weeds into the fire point to the reality of hell.

This is not only in the NT, but the OT as well. The Book of Judith says that God's wrath upon those who reject him will be fire and worms (like it says in the NT) and will last forever. Isaiah's last passage also says that the wretched will be in fire that is not quenched and they (the damned) will be loathsome. Jude 6-7 also indicates the reality of hell using the angels who rejected God and Sodom and Gomorrah as examples.

Also, 2 Thess 1:6-9 indicates that it is God who is punishing the wicked and will be shut from the presence of the Lord forever in everlasting destruction (how can destruction read as annihilation be forever...it can't, so there must be another meaning--enter the idea of an everlasting hell). Straight from Jesus' mouth, he says in the story of Lazarus and the rich man that the rich man cries out in anguish in the burning fire (Luke 16:19-31).

There are also verses that speak of the conscious dead. I find the claims (by Christians) that hell in no way can exist except in the human person becoming non-existent to be unfounded and wrapped up in wishful thinking and bad interpretation.

 

It is not that she is a nut, but that she is just ignorant of reality.

I do accept evolution. I accept the reality that the Bible's creation account is contains Truth without being historically and scientifically concordant (meaning not historically and scientifically connected to reality). It is connected to a theological reality. Even though it follows the same patter of other creation myths, its message is radically different and therein lies the importance for Christians (and all of creation). I am also a creationist. We didn't come from no where, God did create the universe and everything inside of it. The bible even says that we are "stitched together" in the womb. Does this mean that god sews on our arms and legs and head...no. It means that God even plays a role in our gestation and birth through a slow and gradual process.

 

Perpetual fire and worms appears to me an endless cycle of metabolic birth, death, and systemic recycling. Sos forever.

 

First thing is that heaven and hell can be experienced right now. If you are fearful, hateful, unloving, and ran by your ego, then you are in hell. Look at some the places on earth, kids selling crack and getting shot, nobody even knows, tell me that isn't hell. If you are loving, caring, ready to receive life, then all is heaven, all is blissful. Look at the northern lights, look at a beautiful sunset on a beach, tell me that isn't heaven.

Now as for the metaphysical hell that most are thinking of....

First there is various levels of existence, physical plane, astral plane, causal plane, super causal plane, and the spiritual plane.

All of what most people think of as heaven and hell dwell on the astral plane. There are millions of heavens and hells, and each heaven and hell is unique to individual, all due to his beliefs as well as his actions (karma).

So if you believe you will end up in a lake of fire, you could possibly end up in lake of fire, if you believe hell is cold dismal dreary place, it will be cold in dreary, if hell is you listening to the sound of a nail on chalkboard forever, it shall be that.

Now all these heavens and hells are not eternal, they can be conquered with love. You can raise yourself out of these places through love. These are lower realms, there still part of the game, if you want eternal peace you must reach the spirit plane.

Also after this life there is many of possibilities. You can be reincarnated back on earth, you can be reincarnated in another physical dimension. You can go to heaven or hell. You go to the causal plane and live as the mental structure of the universe. Or you can reach the goal, reunite with god on the spiritual level.

Now on that spiritual level are the real heaven and hell. The kingdom of god, the kingdom of truth. It is all light though, it is all consciousness, all love, no form at all, not clouds or angels or gates or anything. Just light, pure brilliant light of bliss. This is the true heaven, the true state of being.

Now opposite of that is complete and utter chaos, total darkness, nonunderstanding, confusion. This the real hell, it is the state of the soul, when it chooses not to realize itself. Satan is actually a force rather than an entity. Satan is delusion, separation from god, if one stays separate and refuses to evolve they will be thrown to this eternal hell, and possibly there soul removed from existence all together.

You can not enter this eternal hell unless you are a complete monster, completely compelled by delusion and ego, completely unaware of anything that is happening. You'd have to be worst then hitler to enter this hell, you have to be completely uncompassionate, completely dead and unappreciative of life.

Just by asking questions, taking charge to move forward, you are already beyond any hell ridden destiny. Just love life and you will be in bliss. You will be in heaven. Whenever I go into meditation, I am in heaven, it is right there, heaven fills my body, I am in the clouds and weightless. Just find love, then heaven is right now.

 

The trouble is you prove one thing true in the Bible and people say well that's just one thing and so you prove another and another and people say; well that doesn't prove the whole Bible true. It's just a never ending circle for those who don't want to believe.

Well, I can help you out on that one.

Remember Adam and Eve, they were told, dust you are and to dust you shall return. God didn't tell them that they would burn forever in hellfire and that seems like a salient point to bring up or do you think God was just going to surprise them.

When was hell created? It's not mentioned in the creation account, in fact "hell" isn't even used in the Bible until De. 32: 22, some 5 books into the Bible and the next time it's used is in 2 Sam. 22:6, another 5 books into the Bible.

Hell is translated from the Hebrew word Sheol and Sheol basically means common grave of mankind, thus anyone who dies, good or bad, goes to Sheol and awaits the resurrection and while they are there they are not conscious of anything, as Eccl. 9:5, 10 brings out, so even if God wanted to burn and torture them there, they wouldn't know it because they aren't conscious.

So the worst that can happen to you is that you die and you don't wake up, which is what most atheists believe anyway.

Didn't think you were or else you wouldn't be discussing it.