If I recall, isn't it written in the bible that during the end times, Christians will be persecuted and forced to leave their homes for fear of their lives, as it was in the "early days"? Yet Christianity is going strong still, and has great influence over politics and society as a whole. To me it doesn't look much like the End Times out there, when Christianity is still very respected by a sizeable percentage of people in the world. Are earthquakes really any worse now then they ever were? Was there ever not fighting in the holy lands (middle east)? Could someone list all of the other symptoms of the end times on this thread? I often hear Christians speaking about how bad earthquakes (and all other natural disasters...does the bible mention them, or just earthquakes?) and famine are today but I don't think it's true that they have suddenly gotten much worse in the last few years. It's usually proclaimed by the Christians I've encountered like it's a "duh" thing, but when you get down to it, most of the things they mention have been happening for a long, long time. I feel like these same people would be pointing out the same exact things whether they lived in the 1960's, mid nineteenth century, or earlier. What about some specific events that have happened recently to directly fulfill biblical prophecy? As far as I can tell, if there hasn't been prophecy fulfillment, there's no good reason to trust a book that supports slavery and war against non believers. If it is happening, okay well maybe Jesus is the right one to follow after all. But when you see people labeling Obama as THE antichrist and jumping over little things like that, as if were are deep into the end times and scorpion locusts will be swarming us any minute, it makes a joke out of it all, for me anyway. (So many of these end time watchers also seem to be suckers for tabloid type photos and articles (http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/alien-or-human-like-fetus-born-from-a-cow/)...somewhat of a tangent but not really. Hardcore End-timers do seem a bit gullible, don't they?) So what are some opinions on the end times?
I heard that the sun would sink into a black hole and the earth would go with it. Of course that designs that mankind would last millions of years before. Do you feel that is a solution that makes people understand the meaning for the birth of the anti-christ?
That's because it hasn't happened yet. Most people say things are getting worse because that's their perception. Most people don't, as a young child, take note of what happens on the news, so when they're adults it seems like it's about 1000x times worse in their lifetime, which isn't really true. True, because every generation is looking for signs that it could be them that live through it. Actually there's been quite a few things recently, here's a few off the top of my head: Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 restoration of the Hebrew language re-appearance of the Ethiopian Jews the rise of a European superstate (having had an EU president put in power just last month) People accuse Obama of being the anti-christ because people are pulling at strings. People have done that throughout history and are usually completely wrong in what they're saying. Best not to pay attention to it. The real anti-Christ will make himself apparent when the time is right. I think most people are gullible for tabloid type stories in a way. That's why they sell so well! Also, because Jesus made it very clear that we will not know the day he will be returning, I believe we shouldn't try to predict when the End Times will begin. There's no point. We'll know when it starts to happen for real so keep a watch out and make sure you know what to look out for, but don't let it be your obsession.
Jesus said that we will know when the seasons change. As in, we will sense when it is coming through the signs of the times, but he did say that the exact day would not be known, not even by him. In the end times, it is said to be a time when information increases at a breakneck speed. I could be wrong, but the blooming flowers of these times seems to indicate that it is near. Perhaps another boy that cried wolf scenario, but if we look at the environment and the other factors that you brought up (like the EU [Daniel prophecy of the feet of both bronze and clay] ) and information speeding up and the Biblical message being omnipresent across the globe... that could indicate something. As for the anti-Christ, anyone who denies the Christ can be considered an anti-Christ and that many anti-Christs would come. Is Obama THE son of perdition? No, but when he denounced the Sermon on the Mount, he denied Christs message.
the jews predicted the same thing. That's why they wanted jesus dead isn't it? and also hitler came. ironic that the breakneck information will bring it. cuz science has brought evolution up. there's age patterns, with prophecies that are taken as good with people in the new religion but the devil in the past religion. The end of times is merely the end of that age of religion, which are the people of the religion. Humans aren't goin anywhere
No, that's not the reason. 'The Jews' hated Jesus. They didn't believe that he was who he said he was and hated that he suggested that they were vipers, wolves in sheeps clothing, and that tradition, not God, was more important to them than anything else. And Jews did not predict the same thing, God predicted it and his people did not realize what was happening while it was happening. Jews today still don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. They believe that the Messiah would not be a spiritual leader, but an actual political and military leader. More information on that here: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/mashiach.htm "What About Jesus? Jews know that Jesus could not possibly have been the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both of which are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as Jews have always understood it. Jesus neither did any of the things described above, nor did he bring about the anticipated messianic age. " It isn't some kind of subconscious self-denial while actually believing in order to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Jews genuienly disbelieve that Jesus was the Messiah or that he even existed at all. Many Jews actually make fun of the idea that Mary was a virgin. The Jews aren't pretending disbelief. Many Christians actually have converted to Judaism because they felt that Christianity did not follow the scriptures. Yep, he can be considered an anti-Christ What do you mean when you say 'bring it?' It's definitely the end of religion and that would be a good thing. It will be a time when universal principals, not religion, will rule our lives. The end times is merely the end of an era of sin: Wars, famine, and a disconnect from God. Human's aren't going anywhere. I agree with you, but we will be shaken up quite a bit
by "bring it" i was referring to the post before about when end times comes, there'll be breakneck increases of information. the pace of technology growth is continuously growing. by looking at this decade, our technology capabilities have grown tremendously. and you can expect to see more growth in the next decade. so it's comin. and the hitler thing, what i mean is he was the religious anti-christ evil-prophecy thing for the old testament. he is a bad person for killing all those people for no reason besides religion. we should'nt call him an anti-christ based on what we all know now, its supporting religious thoughts. he was bad for a reason, and when it comes to religious thoughts, 'good' and 'bad' is kinda just based on if you're in or not. so yes he was a bad person, but for universal reasons now. he wasnt just the anti-christ. dont include yourself with the 'good' and 'bad' cuz that's the same thing hitler did. if people think he was the anti-christ now, that just doesnt make sense. obviously he didnt destroy the world. and the anti-christ would've been able to regardless of other people's powers. A new age will come that will be different than the christians. the christians will see it as the devil working and they grasp on to their bibles. same story as with jesus coming (except the miracles. if someone actually walked on water, im sure it woulda been recorded by historians besides the bible writers) Little do they know that it'll be change for the better (i'm sure you'd agree that the new testament is more healthy than the old testament) so the answer to religion and end times, is to void it and yeah being shake up is good
Thanks Zep, I learned a few things from your post. I know so little about the bible and how it actually got to us in its present form. So many people claim the bible is the direct word of God, and could not be tainted by the tampering of man, and yet why there are so many versions with everyone pointing to their favorite as THE truth. And why should the King James version be considered the "true" version for Christians, when it's a version that actually has a verse that contradicts the commonly accepted idea of a rapture, with Jesus promising a criminal he'll enter the kingdom of heaven on the same day he died (and not at the final judgement). I've read that the original meaning was that Jesus was stating that he was making that promise to the man on that day, and not that he was promising the criminal that he would enter heaven as soon as he died on that very day. I'm not so sold on the KJV, it just seems too popular with ignorant right wing hypocrits, and I believe in judging Christians by the fruits they bear. I don't know, I can't disprove Jesus but I know rotten fruit when I see it (Phelps family, Ann Couture...yech!). I kind of wish I knew ancient Greek...
It is coming and technology has increased. But I wasn't arguing against technology, I was arguing that the Bible uses that as one of the signs of the end. Information has a way of doubling so I can't disagree with that one. Many believed that he was the anti-Christ, but I meant that there would be many anti-Christs not just one. This is different from the son of perdition because he would have to meet all of the requirements that the Bible and Jesus points out, and so far, none have come into fruition. I know what you mean, though. You're saying that it is Christian perspective to see Hitler as an anti-Christ. And that by us calling him a anti-Christ only reinforces the religious perspective. I was just pointing out that is what the Bible describes a anti-Christ to be. However, I don't agree with when you say that good is merely subjective and just a matter of collective thinking. I am a moral objectivist and I do believe in a right or wrong -- I don't consider myself good... I believe that only God and Jesus reserve that label. I would say that is not what Hitler did. To better explain, William Wilberforce is someone that I would consider to have a 'good conscience', while people like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot did not. I believe that some people follow good conscience while others do not While I believe that many would blindly follow their Bibles without comprehending it's message despite advancements in human development, I do believe that there will be a system that even non-Christians would feel is wrong; it just hasn't come yet, but when it does I suspect that you would also resist it. God loans out his spirit to every one of us and if something is implement that went against out reason, prosperity, and everything that brings happiness, then that part of us would cause us to speak out against such a thing. I see both 'parts' of the Bible as being healthy. Mosaic law was for a specific time and purpose before the Christ, so God was dealing with different people during a different time - Thir hearts were hardened and the laws were created for those with hardened hearts. I respect your viewpoints and I can see where you are coming from. There are many Bible thumpers that I don't like and they end up making people like me looking very despicable. I would love it if we can avoid the end times, but despite what many of us want, there are many that do not want the same as us. We will be in competition with them and innovation, despite being very useful, will not be the only means to bring about a better world. There are many in the world that do not want a better world and those will be the people that will bring about the shake up. And everyone fighting against that will suffer from that... The thing is though, these are the things God has said WILL happen before Jesus returns. If you want to see that in another perspective, as in, the shake up, the birth pains, will cause a new era for human understanding and reasoning, then I that's good too Just sayin', I believe that it'll be more than that
No problem! The Bible has seen many attempts of being tainted, but the Dead Sea Scrolls shows us that the Bible has remained the same despite these attempts. Just compare the differences between the Codex Sinaiticus with modern translations of the Bible. Compare the Psalms with the Psalms of the New Internal Version. Think of it this way: If you wrote one poem in two different ways, yet the poem still contained the same message, then we can say that it is the same poem. Or we can say, 'its the thought that counts.' There is no, 'perfect' translation of the Bible. I feel that they all contain the same message, they just deal with a different expression of saying it. The Hebrew language deals with concrete concepts and it is very diverse. One word can be rendered in different ways depending on the context and all renderings of the same word can end up meaning the many things... all aspects of its rendering can be true. I'd recommend staying away from the KJV. Many verses were added and omitted and it took the terms of the day such as 'evil eye' that wasn't originally there. People feel is good and intellectual to use it, but it's an ancient language and there is no reason to read it in that way anymore... We aren't supposed to quote scripture here but can you in some way point of what verses do you mean? Yech is right. :cheers2: Me too.
The Bible is fulled with prophecies that tell us how to identify the last days and Jesus said when you see all these things happening the end is near. Wars, earthquakes, famines and plagues are only a small part of those signs but those are the easiest to point out, the rest are a little more difficult to tell others about unless they are willing to study what the bible say about it.
Hey, I didn't post scriptures as it's the main Christianity board and not really supposed to. But, here's some scripture: Restoration of Israel: Restoration of Hebrew language I will try and find more passages on a little later. Ethiopian Jews (and other African jews too) Ethiopian Jews have been air-lifted from Ethiopa since Israel became a state in 1948 Edit; forgot about the European superstate, will find passages in a sec for it
That's quite an accurate description of the EU, although a strong power, it does not have a shared history or language, and so the powers fight within themselves often and would never have a unity or bond with each other. The ten kings are the leaders of the EU, and the final king who will subdue three of them, is probably the Anti-christ.
It's okay to cite them, they just don't want you to quote them. Also thanks for the scriptures, I believe these scripture have a different meaning but it's interesting how others view them. It gives me a good reason to take another look at them.
No one knows the hour of his coming because love waits not on time but invitation. God comes in the blink of an eye.
No one knows the hour but the Bible gives us a pretty good idea of how to tell when it's getting close.
can you imagine when Krakatoa blew its top in the 1800's.. they thought this was the end times aswell.. the only end times I predict is the loss of individual thought,, keep on listening to media and syfy TV, when you should be finding the light in your soul that never extinguishes.. it does if you follow the greed of mankind.. Which is doomed because its g-d is $$$$$$$...
