"I won't see monsters, will I?"

After using DMT many times myself, I believe these "entities" everyone is always referring to are simply manifestations of different parts of your own being.

 

This seems to be a fundamental difference in the way different people look at the psychedelic experience. Is it their mind being allowed or forced to do amazing or scary things, or are they experiencing some kind of separate world and meeting entities?

I think you see it when people say, "you should respect" a psychedelic drug. Or should you respect the effects the drug has on you?

I think it all has to do with mythology. Joseph Campbell style mythology, not Zeus style.
I was just thinking this morning how clowns are kind of like the ancient exaggerated statues and images or humans. Some kind of deeply embedded common warping of the human image that shows up in different societies in different ways....elves.... I think there's a lot of this really deep mythology going on in our heads.

So, I don't think it's necessary some parallel universe that exists outside our minds, but some kind of parallel universe that exists in the deep recesses of our minds.

Getting in touch with this part of your mind it can be really amazing. And, especially on the come up, it can reveal a lot about the parts or your mind that are there every day making decisions about your life.

(And depending on how well you accept DMT or how hard you fight it, you might wish you were just seeing monsters.)

 

i feel very strongly that not all entities encountered are manifestations of the mind. iv encountered some that i recognize as such (archetypical projections) but have had expiriences with ayahuasca that leave no doubt in my mind about the occurance of spirit phenomenon. its not like i'd have ever thought it would be like.
if we really wanted to get into it i could type for ages about what i mean by spirit. all forms of energy manifest on a number of different levels (nor really levels, but we often seperate them in observation) ex: i have a body, a mind, emotions and spirit (countless other aspects that we wont get into for simplicitys sake). but this is one unified phenomenon, not different levels of being. the interplay between these aspects of my self are synchronized. tension patterns in the body exist in sych with emotional responces and mental attitutes, ect. SOMATICS. so how does this manifest on the spiritual realm? (the qualitative expression of the accumulative energy that makes up our existance. we have to step into a new set of lenses through which to observe so that we can take in what is really happening. ) outside of humanity there are countless sentinent beings residing on this planet alone. how do they individually and collectively manifest in the realm of spirit? outside planet earth even. beings without bodies even....it gets stranger still... we're talking an infinatly vast space.
its for real. i do believe there are independant entities that exist but have nothing to do with humans. being that we dont hold into existance with our minds.
imo the argument about how all entities are just aspects of oneself is only true if one subscribes to the idea that the totallity of the universe is oneself. true perhaps if viewed from the highest perch....but thats not how we individually expirience reality. we live in a dualistic realm.

i realize not everyone encounters entities on dmt, even amongst seasoned travelers. but that isnt a very good argument to disregard the possibility.

its common practise in shamanic culture to extract negetive entities' grip on patients. (amongst other things) how does that grip manifest in the physical? disease somtimes, other times more subtle ways that play on emotional reactions or thought loops more that evident physical sickness. do these entities really exist? well, we can see the physical manifestation clearly...we can potentially see the emotional and mental manifestations as well. what of the spirit manifestation? (the shaman sees an entity (but he is a crazy man!!!)) its the chicken and the egg story...what came first? a number of spiritual traditions would tell us that all things manifest first in the spiritual. but spirit is shaped by us, our action, our thoughts...the accumulation of our energies. so is it real or not? are these cling ons a part of us or somthing seperate? now we're getting somewhere interesting....


ramble on...

 

I have in fact witnessed "entities".
I still believe them to be a part of one's self though.
Half of a fleeting thought is enough to warp your entire universe when you're on DMT.
It's not hard to see how an entity could easily come about to someone on a decent dose.
The mind is endlessly complex, and the things it can put out in psychedelia are truly astounding.

 

its certainly an interesting debate...independant? or part of ones self? iv had strange enough expiriences (both during and after working with the plants) that lead me to believe in the former.

 

I think this thread stinks from the start.

If someone asked me whether they would see monsters after smoking DMT I would say:

You might see anything. You might see monsters. You might see spirits. You might see god. You might see a miriad of colours more intense than any of these things.

I don't see how you can deny people's experiences of entities, Mr. Writer. Whether they exist or not is a totally different story. Many people report seeing weird things, and depending on the person's beliefs, they may interpret them as monsters, and indeed have an emotional reaction to them as if they are monsters.

Ive had lots of different experiences. I would not say that Ive seen monsters. But if some worried person asked me, I would not let them think that it was just going to be some fancy colours. It can have intense meaning to each individual. If they think it is real, it is up to them. Most of us will think otherwise, but that doesnt detract from their experience while theyre high on DMT

 

That is true.

-Mckenna

 

I was with you until you mentioned the Star Trek stuff...How can I really believe in klingons?

 

to be honest i keep my posts as mild as possible on the hip forums. this stuff is stranger still....
the amazonian shamans world is full of things far more bizarre than star trek. magic phlem!?! invisible darts!?! burping as a spiritual energy transferance!?!

 

we can think of it metaphorically if that makes it more comfortable. think of a man hooked on the bottle. we've all met him. his addiction is draining him, we see that. dudes wasting away. we could say this man was being sucked dry by his bottle demon...metaphorically speaking.

this is really all it needs to mean. s'all a matter of perspective, how you choose to look at what is. reality is a subjective matter of perspective. how you choose to look at what your able to see.

theres an important distinction to be made within this example. is there some kind of energy draining this individual? yes. is it an independant lifeform? i would say no. alcholoism wouldnt exist were it not for humanities abuse of alcohol.
if we take a look at a different energetic force such as a plant i come to a different conclution. say i have an individual mugwort plant in my garden. this individual plant has an energetic imprint upon reality, it is also tapped into a larger energetic body or lifeforce that is the accumulative force of mugwort. (collective) we can observe the individual, and the collective of this medicine. theosophists call this sort of thing a plant deva. it is indepentant of humanity. it isnt fed by us, but it is somthing we can come to know. be it physically and/or spiritually. (we can come to know mugwort by the qualitative expirience of its medicine...its presence interacting with ourselves)

we're talking about energy and how it manifests depending on the way we choose (or are able to) see it. astrally all energy has a devic force of sorts, or a persona. but that dosent always mean it is existing independant of our vision. our own thoughtforms have the potential to create these things as well. dosent make it not real imo, it still exists, but if it manifests as somthing draining or unhealthy we ought to ask ourselves: is this somthing worth holding or would it be more beneficial to disolve and dispearse this energy? everyone has their own demons, whether we choose to see them as demons or just unhealthy and habitual patterns it dosent matter because its the same either way you look at it. it dosent matter how you see what exists, so long as you recognize what is there. what im interested in is the art of healing...how do i cleanse myself of draining forces?

 

Yeah...just trying to be funny with the cling on stuff....

But...I think I get what you mean.

Sometimes I believe in a universal homogeneous energy (chaos) and life as a separation of parts of that energy. When we die we go back into the homogeneous energy and may come out in parts of many different living things at some other time. So, life is just the perception that oneself is separate from the energy. It's like life is the expression of a gene in the universal energy field.

(Sometimes when I'm being really human centric, I think maybe other life forms are not separate from the universal energy and it's our perception that separates them....so humans somehow came out of the chaos to be separate and perceived the other stuff into separate existence, but they aren't separate......but, that doesn't seem right.)

But, somehow for me, I still feel like DMT doesn't let me see things that would still exist when I'm not on DMT....or maybe when I'm not on DMT, but not without me. I can't see that the same entity might go visit someone else, and, say, remember visiting me or something.

Also, the substance itself, to me, doesn't seem powerful or sacred until it is used.

I think if I took a trip to Peru with a good guide, I might change my mind.

I can totally see how someone might look at it differently, and as a true agnostic I have to say that I don't really know which is true...I just tend to believe what I believe because that model works for me.

But, I guess you are right, it's not really that big a difference in the way of looking at things. Just like I sometimes hear that the Budda refused to talk about nirvana because it didn't really matter on the path to attaining it.

 

respects but, i was experiencing something way before i'd even heard of entheogens... from early childhood, right up to my first drug experience, i'd seen and interacted with some strange beings... after it, i had same type experiences.. there ARE things there, because we don't all have the same imaginary symbols, yet many experience the same beings... how is that?

having said that, i feel i know that all is one, too, so the "monsters" are really still apart of the one... there really isn't anything to fear... except fear ofcourse... peace

 

it would make sense that the entities which are frequently reported to be reptilian are just manifestations of yourself millions of years back on the darwinian scale.

 

I would say statisticaly there is a higher chance of them just being reptilians than a darwinian throwback.

But yeah, its a difficult subject. On a physical level, you and i are not even realy here right now, we are if you look close enough just a cloud of atoms which are things that realy are like a potential rather than a physical object. SO we are just clouds of potential hanging around. Disturbances in the cosmic radiation if you must. Our dreams are real too while we experience them, so much so that we can experience deep fear, or great titilation from dreams. I have never realy had entities poping out at me until last sunday when I opened my eyes as the music got interupted by my friend that went to change the track, and there it was, next to him about hip height, plain to see OEV.