How do Muslims defend the Prophet Muhammed's marriage to Aisha, a girl who would have been six or seven at their wedding with them having physical relations at nine or ten years. How does this get defended by Islam, when from outside it looks like paedophilia?
This is a fairly weak argument because the entire concept of pedophilia is rather modern. Back in the good ol' days marrying extra young was more than acceptable.
It may be a weak argument but it still is a stumbling point there. I've never heard of a defence other than "it was OK to sleep with a ten year old girl in those days". If Jesus had slept with a 9 year old little girl I'd have a very hard time being a Christian. I probably would have renounced my faith over it. So I'm just wondering how it gets validated. Just an interesting question.
It's a personal matter. Many people would have no problem with it if it was in the Bible. Plus, you don't know if Jesus slept with a 9 year old girl or not. Not a whole lot of his life is documented... for all you know, he could have been ass-fucking goats. Doesn't make him any less groovy of a person though.
I do not disagree that sexuality in children (by this I mean the interest in sex) can not start from a young age. But there is difference between physical and emotional maturity when it comes to sex. I have trouble believing a young girl of 9 could have been emotionally mature enough to have sex. In a lot of countries in the modern age with age of consent as low as 13 this consent is when the older partner is a limit of about 4 or 5 years older than the younger. So it wouldn't suggest a country of paedophiles if a 13 and a 15 year old were legally able to have sex, but a 13 and a 40 year old could not. I don't know that Jesus did not sleep with a 9 year old. But I do know that Muhammed did. And if Jesus had, I would challenge anyone as to why they would believe in him after something such as this. I would have to re-evaluate my own beliefs. Another point I would like to make, is this. This is a passage from the Qu'ran narrated by Aisha. Could this passage be responsible for justifying abuse to child wives up to the present day? The danger is not even so much in the original act in the Qu'ran, but the ramifications of this act. For hundreds of years child marriage in Islam can be justified because Muhammed had married Aisha. Should this not be worrying? Open to all thoughts and opinions.
Evidence of Aisha's age, from Islamic scripture. He was wrong if he said Aisha was married at 12. From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234 Bukhari vol. 7, #65: From the hadith of Muslim, volume 2, #3309 From the hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116 From "The History of Tabari", volume 9, page 131
married at 9 doesnt mean sex at nine--im sure he waited until 12 or so--and sex at twelve in that culture was ok--if you dont like it dont follow Islam--if you cant get your mind around it leave it alone---Mohamad was a warrior too---he killed in battle so sex and violence can be defended in the Koran--leave it alone its beyond your concepts
You are taking this very much to heart. Why is this? And I disagree, a 12 year old should not have sex no matter whether she is married or not. She is a child.
really it wasnt til the early 1800's in the united states that the age of consent was introduced... before that, you could marry a child, engage in sex with a child.. ect.. Im sure there were no consent laws in the 600a.d.
Well, you are telling people not to trust anything I'm saying. I take that to mean you're taking it all pretty personally.
I misunderstood then. I should apologise for that. This thread's going quite badly. All I meant was to ask a question.
I'm fairly sure they did not consummate their marriage as soon as they were married. Some interpretations even put Aisha as old as 14 before the marriage was officially consummated. Anything post pubescent isn't pedophilia from a biological standpoint, and as for emotionally maturity, I think a 14 year old from those days would probably be even more mature than you or I. It was a harder life back then. People died younger, and people grew up younger.
For example in 1564, a three year old named John was married to a two year old named Jane in the Bishop's Court in Chester, England. Though Shakespeare set his Romeo and Juliet in Verona, the fact that Juliet was thirteen probably reflects the reality in England. Her mother, who was twenty-six, calls her almost an old maid...
Aysha's parents were not so good people, they were about to sell her to an old man at 6 years old as a slave and worse. Mohammed saved her, but he could not have her living in his home, as muslim men cannot live in a house with a woman they are not related to, so her married her, and she had a place to live. In ALL countrys those days, the age of consent was very young, to us now adays it seems bad, in Europe a girl could marry as soon as she had her monthlys, could be 12-13. It was a diffrent world then. Do you know that in the bible, it says that mary was pregnant with jesus at around 11-13 years old? She was married off to Joseph who was nearly 50 at the time. In this present day, some countrys do still marry girls off very young, not only muslim countrys, this has not alot to do with religion now, more a cultural thing,in these days were the radicals have dragged Islam though the shit in the eyes of the world,many people have picked up on this fact about Mohammed,to use against the muslims,but have not looked into their own history, like many other religions, the radicals have only taken the parts of the quoran that suit their murderous ways, and hae ignored the rest, like the part that says to killone innocent man, you are just as guilty as if you distroyed the whole world. these holy books were written in a diffrent time, like in the bible, it condems gay people, but condems divorce in the same way, but people choose to ignore that, because it does not suit their life style. We in moden times only consentrate on what suits us now, just as the radicals only choose to believe the murderous words.
I've seen this claimed but never with any real back up. I can't find the scriptures online. What passage in the Bible says that Mary was 11-13 years and Joseph was nearly 50? Edit: I am searching extensively, but the ages of Mary and Joseph do not seem to be in the Bible. All I am finding are people's estimates in commentaries, and these are wild estimates. Mary anything from 11 to 30 years of age. Joseph anything from 16 to 90. If anyone knows the passage, enlighten me because I can't find it.
The difference here is; Muslims would never disrespect Christianity enough to say that the Holy Ghost that impregnated Mary was paedophilia, or that Joseph was a filthy old man who molested children. You just don't accuse a prophet of that kind of thing, you have faith. Muslims don't have to defend the Prophet's marriage to Aisha, he was a good man and it was done in good faith. Beyond that, you just don't know. Some say Joseph was 50 when he married a 12-14 year old Mary, some say he was 90. It sounds ridiculous, but you have faith that what ever happened, they were good people and everything was done right by such a young girl. Now some say Aisha was 6 when she married Muhammed, some say she was older. Modern apologists think she may have been as old as 16, since the dates don't add up otherwise. Regardless, child marriage was a common thing at the time. Not only in Bedouin societies, but world wide too. You also have to remember that when the life expectancy was a lot less, these girls were a lot more grown up than you think. Renouce it! Around the times of Jesus, marriage was 'common' by the age of 14. Some didn't get married until they were 20, some got married at 10. Just because Jesus didn't marry/sleep with a young girl doesn't mean he thought it was wrong, or that it didn't happen around those times. There is no age of consent in the Bible. There is no age of consent in the Qur'an either. Both faiths have the belief that once puberty is reached you are an adult. Age of consent is something the courts decided and in recent times. Likewise. I've read your quotes, but where are the ones in the Qur'an?
Actually you are mistaken. I found a Muslim forum in which someone did claim that Mary was raped. I will try and find the link again. But mainly the reason for Muslims not making these claims is that these people are also holy in Islam. It is not in their favour to insult their own holy people I would understand. There is no evidence that Jesus ever slept with a young child, so what basis is that to renounce my faith? What proof do you have that Jesus thought child sex was OK? It does say we must follow the law of the country, so whatever laws of consent there have been now or in the past, we are Biblically required to follow them. Other then that, the consent comes with marriage. Pardon my lack of knowledge on the matter but the vast majority of Muslims read and accept the hadith as well as the Qu'ran. If the hadith are scriptures of Muhammed's narratives and accepted by most Muslims why should this not be acceptable to quote?
You have to be a little more reasonable here. I can't speak for every one of the 1.5 billion+ Muslims existing on the planet. Generally, a Muslim will never speak bad of the Bible, almost certainly not if they understand the importance of Jesus. The reason Christians tend to believe it's acceptable to slate Islam is because Islam came last and there's nothing written about it in Christianity, Muhammed was unknown. Yet the Jewish, Christians and Islam are all people of the book, it'd be nice if the respect was mutual. Right. There was no age of consent in the UK before 1753, so before then it was fine- There was certainly no such thing as paedofilia if it was legal to marry and to consumate these marriages with children/young adults. So before laws were passed all over the world, it was Biblical to engage in marriage and sex with such young girls. There is no evidence to suggest that Jesus didn't sleep with a 'young child' (who wouldn't have been considered a young child in those times) either. Since nothing was written to suggest that Jesus did get married, we assume he didn't. You posted 5 quotes. Sunan of Abu Dawud is unauthentic, Sunnis don't have faith in that Hadith. Tarikh al-Tabari is a history book, not a Hadith. So again, there's no faith. Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim however are 'authentic', since 'Sahih' translates as 'authentic'. Yet both collections of Hadiths were written 200 years after Gabriel revealed the Qur'an to the prophet. Lots of modern Muslims don't believe in many of the Hadiths. Some Hadiths explain the Qur'an, but it's not needed since the Qur'an is the word of God and nothing can override that. It's believed that lots of Muslim Scholars doubt some of the authentic Hadiths but none would ever do so publically, especially since the two main books are embraced with the Holy Islamic word Sahih. The other problem is that if a Scholar accuses even a single Hadith of being false, the whole collection has to be questioned and nobody (or very little) would be willing to make an accusation against something Sahih. I've said this already, but there are lots of modern day scholars (as well as many older) suggesting Aisha was a lot older than 6 when she got married and 9 when she first had sex. So on this basis and because Muhammed and Allah are unquestionable, Muslims do not need to defend his actions. Muslims believe Muhammed married Aisha only to do good by her and they were very fond of each other. I don't think you'll accept whatever answer people give you though. It's almost like you're asking a rhetorical question.
