What happens when people take psychedelic drugs

Or is it something else?

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2006 Jun;38(2):143-7.

Values and beliefs of psychedelic drug users: a cross-cultural study.
Lerner M, Lyvers M.

Department of Psychology, Bond University, Gold Coast, Australia.

Psychedelic drugs such as LSD and psilocybin are often claimed to be capable of inducing life-changing experiences described as mystical or transcendental, especially if high doses are taken. The present study examined possible enduring effects of such experiences by comparing users of psychedelic drugs (n = 88), users of nonpsychedelic illegal drugs (e.g., marijuana, amphetamines) (n = 29) and non illicit drug-using social drinkers (n = 66) on questionnaire measures of values, beliefs and emotional empathy. Samples were obtained from Israel (n = 110) and Australia (n = 73) in a cross-cultural comparison to see if values associated with psychedelic drug use transcended culture of origin. Psychedelic users scored significantly higher on mystical beliefs (e.g., oneness with God and the universe) and life values of spirituality and concern for others than the other groups, and lower on the value of financial prosperity, irrespective of culture of origin. Users of nonpsychedelic illegal drugs scored significantly lower on a measure of coping ability than both psychedelic users and non illicit drug users. Both groups of illegal drug users scored significantly higher on empathy than non illicit drug users. Results are discussed in the context of earlier findings from Pahnke (1966) and Doblin (1991) of the transformative effect of psychedelic experiences, although the possibility remains that present findings reflect predrug characteristics of those who chose to take psychedelic drugs rather than effects of the drugs themselves.

PMID: 16903453 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

makes sense to me

 

the last part is interesting to note.

there's always the question of whether it is the drugs causing this in people, or whether people who already are more open minded and spiritual have a tendency towards using psychedelics.

chicken and the egg, you know? still interesting.

i'd like to see a long term study where they start gathering this information at a young age and then see how it develops as the person goes down whatever path of drug use/non drug use and see how it turns out.

 

For me at least, I think there was a latent humanity/empathy, spirituality, and so on that was freed by LSD many years ago. Without acid, there is a good chance I would have been a bitter old alcoholic. Despite no psychedelics or any other drugs for almost 40 years, it's still alive, still operational.

When you find out who you are
Beautiful,
Beyond your dreams

 

Okay, so can someone put this into simpler terms lol

 

i didn't read the whole thing, but there really is no way to describe it accurately.

just get some 4-aco-dmt...that stuff is fucking magic.

 

Psychedelic users scored significantly higher than the other groups on
1. mystical beliefs (e.g., oneness with God and the universe)
2. life values of spirituality
3. concern for others

We scored low on the value of financial prosperity and high on empathy.

 

I think that would be an impossible test to measure. As every person is unique. One person may have just never actually been able to open their mind. I personally think that it is just open minded people. The way I see it, when people take a drug, it gives them a new perspective, a new way of looking at the world, a new state of consciousness. See it how you will, at the end of the day from this one person can take a lot and other person can take next to nothing.

It may have been the drug which assisted them in coming to these realizations or spiritual epiphanies but at the end of the day, if it was the drug purely that did it, then by that logic every single drug user who has ingested that drug would equally share similar experiences.

This, as it is, is not that case. I think that a drug can do nothing more than assist the mind in seeing the world from different perspectives which in turn can promote thinking at a "higher" or "spiritual level" but it is not as though one causes the other. It is just one of the many "magical" correlations of the universe

 

yeah i completely agree with you.

but a study could be done on whether people had a tendency towards these beliefs/ideas (showed signs of greater empathy, etc) early on in their life, before they took a psychedelic, compared to their time after, or compared to how they developed had they never tripped.

obviously that still won't change the fact that all of this is dependent on the relationship between the drug and the person, rather than being the sole result of the drug or sole result of the person. but i would be interested to see those findings nonetheless, as it would give an idea of tendency.

plus, i would be interested in seeing the tests and questionnaires used to determine these levels.

 

See the reason I do not think such a test would be measurable is the only way to truly determine the hypothesis is to firstly be able to 100% confirm that subject is experiencing the "thought" or "consciousness" that we want to associate with higher level thinking. If you actually know the subject is experiencing such thought, then the subject would have already been thinking at that level. In addition to this, each person in the world is unique and special. Although they may share similar personality traits, it would be impossible to say that those traits correlate with higher levels of thinking in later life. The only possible way to measure this experiment would be if one could observe the EXACT same person in two different "realities" or "dimensions", upon in one of them the subject experiments with drugs and the within the other dimension, the subject does not take drugs.

I don't think there it is possible to describe "higher level thought" through language, let alone could it be measurable by questionnaires or tests. I think that is the beauty of it, the inability to actually define or have any forms of measure over it. The answers to your questions are inside you. If you really think that you have experienced higher level thought (regardless if it was obtained through drugs or sober life experiences), you wouldn't want to "prove" it, one would simply accept and move on .

Edit: However admittedly, I would find it interesting to see the results as you said, and see the kinds of tests they use to measure it. But I still hold by that I don't think it would really get us any progress or answer the questions originally raised, "do drugs cause 'spiritual' thought?" We would simply see correlations that could be explained by saying a basic logical argument such as the hypothetical following example:
1) Results show that with increased drug use, comes increased spiritual beliefs.
2) Open minded people tend to be spiritual.
3) Open minded people are more open to the idea of drug use.
4) With open mindedness, comes an open view on drugs
Hence
5) Open mindedness leads to increases spirituality, which in turn correlates with a higher probability of drug use.

 

well, to be fair i think this entire study is all just a study of interesting correlation and speculation about possible causes of relationships. the question "do drugs cause spiritual thought?" is a question that is impossible to answer. i think the best we can say is that they "can", and i think it would even be a stretch to say that they "tend" to, because how each person defines and expresses their "spirituality" is very different. i think one of the few aspects of this that is a little more testable is "empathy", because it is easier to get a sense of empathetic feelings because that has a pretty stable definition compared to other things like "god".

but yeah i do think that the basic question (do drugs lead to spirituality) is completely unanswerable in any scientific sense. as a comment, i can say that i've seen things on drugs that i never in a million years would have seen sober, and everything that i've thought subsequently i could trace back to these experiences. drugs have shown me things, without a doubt. then again, all of my development, all of my learning and integrating, my happiest and most telling moments and my most intense fears and disturbing thoughts about my self and the world have all been sober. i try to be careful not to make more out of drugs than they are. in the end, they are another part of life that we shouldn't discount nor get hung up on. the world goes on, everywhere. always.

edit: though, looking back many of these things are actually pretty testable, mainly like i said empathy but also values of money and material wealth. and i guess the "Spiritual" aspect isn't really going for "what arbitrary degree of spirituality are you at?", rather, "how important is your idea of spirituality in your life?". that is a lot more testable, i think. and more reliable in a scientific sense of all this. but i think the biggest change that has occured in me that i can comfortably attribute to psychedelics is the lessened need to think too long and hard about making sure i can fit something in somewhere. i don't really care as much as i used to about keeping everything arranged and fixed or comfortable. i feel more in tune with a natural flow that is very hard to explain. hard to quantify.

 

Yeah I completely agree with everything your saying True to that
I think we have just snapped down the original maker of the question

Edit: One thing I also noticed was after using psychedelics I became better at putting thoughts to the side as such, or just not thinking of thoughts and going with the flow. However as you said, I find it very diffucult to accurately explain the exact changes that have occurred. Perspectives truly are amazing An an another note, I think the problem with discussing the benefits/negatives of psychedelics is that using language to describe an experience does not do an entire drug justice, but I guess thats the same for just about everything.

 

basically a bunch of hipsters trying to find scientific ways to further hate on the miracle, God-like drug we commonly refer to as alcohol

 

i don't see how much good comes out of alcohol...

 

as much as you want

 

i don't do psychedelics but i'm definitely open-minded and not against those that do. i'm quite jealous, in fact. i'd like to be less paranoid about doing a psychedelic. it's just hard when 3 hits of pot puts you on mars. i wonder what a block of acid would do; i might never return to earth.

 

i love alcohol. it's been my drug of choice lately. always certain, never failing. no surprises. i've grown too cowardly and prudent for anything else, and that's really sad.. i suppose i've always been cautious. even with drugs.