I think alot of you young hippies don't realize what it was that we were rebelling against. Last nite, I saw a movie called Mona Lisa Smiles with Julia Roberts. If you ever have the time to see it- watch it, by all means. I think it will give you a good idea what we were faced with back in the late fifties and early sixties. Enjoy! PAX P.S. Woman or man , it was all the same thing.
Good point, man. The social climate is a lot different for kids (and people in general), today, than it was in our day. Back when we were kids, If a black man and a white woman were romantically involved, the guy was likely to get beaten, if not killed, and the woman would be scorned. Capable and clever women were expected to stay pregnant and in the kitchen, where they "belonged." (And many of them actually believed that!) Mona Lisa Smiles = good example. Young men were required to go off and fight wars that they didn't believe in or agree with. Some of those old attitudes remain, but it's a much different world, today.
There's a couple of things that I would like to add to your post Trigcove: first- it really wasn't only women that were in a bad way but it was also men that were in a position where the measure of a man was the amount of money that he made. Today it's still WHAT you are not WHO you are. second- you were referring to blacks marrying whites - it really hasn't changed that much: the only thing is that they aren't hanged or beat up like they used to but the hatred is still there. as far as men going to war: it's still the patriotic thing to do no matter what the war is about. Forty years later............the appearance may have changed but that's all. it's still the same fucked up world. I really hoped that we would have changed things alot more than we did, so I guess that the war is still on. It's too bad that there isn't more young hippies taking up the cause. oh right- they are too busy yakking on their cells..... sorry !!!! It's too bad that most people think that Mona Lisa Smiles is just a chick flick, but I really think it has alot of insight . PAX P.S. by the way- Not so sweet Martha Lorraine by Country Joe ---I was told by a friend that there are as many meanings to the song as there are people who know the meaning to the song.
My racial views are the same as that old sixties rocker by the name of Frank Zappa: "I'm not black but there there are a whole lot of times I wish I could say I wasn't white." These health care demonstrations with people carrying signs saying they want their America back ---all they want is a white president not a black one. I really believe that we should quiet the the silent majority and show the world what we're really made of. I believe that it should be non violent and peaceful. PAX
I think many epople in the 60's, at these those who honestly believed in some sort of revolution distinct from another marketing ploy, underestimated Capitalism's ability to rationalize ALL areas of life, to the point of constraining or eliminating both the romantic aspects of a culture, and often the very culture itself. When all is said and done, even d war and death can be bought and sold, and the Global Indian will ultimately not be very different from the Global American, as they are all brought under the same technical umbrella. It is downright weird that the great successes of capitalism destroy the very values that brought it into existence... Progress without effective democracy is the worst of avalanches
correct me if I'm wrong but are you implying that capitalism is no different than the Borg? and resistance is futile? PAX
I believe that I have been given a small window into those times by moving to the south. I live in a small town in north Florida. Just a few miles from the Alabama border. Seeing the way things are done, it has made me angry and it has made me want to fight back (in a non-violent way ).
No, I am implying that people, including the intelligentsia, continue to believe in the IDEOLOGY of capitalism, rather than looking at what it actually does and how it has actually evolved. Until they abandon the ideal and begin to look at the reality, there will be no resistance period, futile or not. Most analysts are 100 years in the past-they want small town values and global markets-and are going nowhere because of contradictory desires... Look at something as blaringly obvious as the current political environment: It should be apparent that the US is through and through a corrupt oligarchy, that both parties are controlled by monetary interests, and time is ripe for a third party of substance, or perhaps many parties. But all the analysts talk about are individual policies-completely bypassing the problem. the think tanks built by Scaife and others learned one thing above all else: the masses can be charmed and persuaded easily-his ilk are sociopaths with the weapons of the shrink and multimedia... Seeing how shitty it is is not tantamount to giving up!
I wonder if Scaife realized that Abraham Lincoln was really right when he said that you can fool some of the people all of the time and some of the people is really an awful lot of people and they are not just right wing but leftwing as well. It's really unfortunate that the right wing believes that anything other than their beliefs is socialism. The left wing believes that the only way things can be changed is by communism or a form thereof. Both the Democrats and Rebublicans are two of the same. It saddens me to believe that we will not have a third alternative. It's not really a Jewish conspiracy so much as it is the Masons or something similar. Call me paranoid if you want but that's what I believe. It's money that makes the world go round and it's really about time that we opened our eyes and realized that it is time for a change. I really believed that the hippy movement was a start. The only thing that it seemed to have started was the fashion industry. oh well, so goes life. I guess I can only dream for a better world. PAX
This may sound simplistic but until there's a cleanup of Washington politics things will get worse. Lawmakers are getting wealthy by corporations hiring and paying relatives and spouses for board of director and lobbyist positions. About every spouse of a lawmaker sits on a corporate board making million$ a year. These spouses and relatives have very little experience to be board members. Who's interest do these lawmakers vote for? Massive ethical reform is needed.
Yes,until money is completely banned from politics and 3rd (or more)parties are allowed to compete like the entrenched two,nothing can change. We have always been told that we,the people own the airwaves--TV and radio but obviously that's BS.It's mostly where all those hundreds of millions go at election time. Why can't they be forced to air political speeches free as a public service to the citizens of this country?Or relegate political speech to PBS and c-span? We do own those.Maybe more common folk would have a say and get heard instead of the rich dominating elections.Another thing--back in our day,it wasn't so difficult for 1 person to support a family.Look what it's turned into now.(Not to mention the current crisis)People just can't take off work to protest when most everyone is a paycheck or two from homelessness.Also,back a few decades american companies didn't feel it necessary to abandon their fellow citizens for more profits overseas.Some would say unions and their demands for better pay and benefits caused this.I call BS ,because unions have a distinguished and honorable place in america trying to keep the robber barons and others of that ilk ,from working people to death.Which they did. I'm rambling------I have no answers.I'd like to have some.
To address the original question--why we revolted--Because society was a tight-ass racist,don't cuss,don't smoke,don't screw,keep your nose to the grindstone,shut up and don't rock the boat,gang of hypocrites that embodied all that they eschewed and CONSERVATIVELY---yes,conservatives mostly,wanted things as they were.As usual.We got tired of that shit.
There is a Supreme Case currently in review that may allow corporations to give unlimited funds to candidates, if the judges ruling decides that limiting corporate money is limiting free speech. How bribery ever became identical with freedom of expression is a function of some serious psychological disorder; why don't prostitutes legally ply their trade by saying its performance art and denying them clients is unconstitutional??
Confused???? maybe you haven't seen the movie. If and when you do, you will realize that men were put in their place just as much as women were and it wasn't necessarily a good place. PAX
Pax, Yeah, I know there's still a lot of crap in the world... but the draft isn't there anymore and black/white together and not getting whipped or killed... that's a progress of sorts. It's not as much as we might like, but it's moving in the right direction. Hate won't be abolished, ever, probably. Hate breeds hate and there are too many haters still around. What can change, though, are the laws and the prevailing opinions. The KKK is still alive in America, but its ranks are diminished and the ones who remain are the hard-core fringe element. And the He-Man Woman Haters Club is all but gone. By and large, the general opinion has changed, I think, and it's due in no small part to the activism of the 60's. It's still a world that is far, far from perfect... but I think we can safely say that it's a better world now than when we first discovered it. The best explanation that I've heard for Not So Sweet Martha Lorraine is that it's about a woman who is totally self-absorbed and because of that, she's a "poison personality". However, I think the chances are just as good that it was inspired by either LSD or an opium dream, which means that it means whatever we want it to mean. You know what I mean?
I'm really glad that I'm not a judge on the Supreme Court. As much as I think that corporations suck to high heaven, I find it hard to deny them their freedom of expression. Is it right? is it wrong? I don't really know. Like I said, I'm glad I'm not one of the judges. I would love to read other people's opinions - maybe you should start a thread bringing this up just to see what other people think. PAX
One of the things I learned in my years of being a hippie rabblerouser is that you can't change the System except from INSIDE the System. It's just too strong and entrenched. Otherwise, you'll just beat your head against a wall and never accomplish anything for your efforts. And we talk about revolution, but man .. you don't really want a revolution. A revolution would result in absolute chaos. The best "revolutionaries" we've had in the last century were Martin Luther King and Gloria Steinem. Look at all they accomplished by simply insisting that the law be followed, or by insisting that new laws be made where they were needed. We got the Vietnam war ended finally by electing politicians who would no longer approve funding for it. We also convinced politicians that they wouldn't be elected if they continued to support the war. There were people who occupied ROTC buildings till they were blue in the face, but nothing really changed until we learned to use the System to our advantage. The same thing is needed today. Power understands power, and little else. If you're gonna do something to the System, you gotta use the System itself to do it.
