I think the majority of you are missing a key fact here. The fact is that Hiphop and Rap are two different things. Hiphop is the "rap" that stays congruent with the Hiphop culture. Rap is all that other bullshit that they push down your throat on t.v., the movies, radio, etc. If the artist's lyrics address things like culture, education, spiritualism, knowledge, struggle, liberation, etc. etc., then you would classify it under Hiphop. All of this other b.s. that talks about bitches and rides, or just insits on saying a few words repeatedly, falls under rap. There is so much socially relevant Hiphop out there, and the sad this is that while y'all claim to be so liberal and open-minded, y'all are letting the mainstream make you blind to a whole culture. Here's a few Hiphop artists: KRS-One, Common, The Roots, De La Soul, Del, Mos Def, A Tribe Called Quest, Talib Kweli, The Pharcyde, and that's just a few of the more "popular" artists/groups. You all should check out Chuck D.'s rock group called Free Arts Militia, and pay special attention to the song titled 'Hiphop vs. Rap.' (and just in case you didn't know, Chuck D. is the front man of Public Enemy)
I've heard of most of them, and I didn't like them. It's funny because even when a lot of people say the people of rap are saying something intelligent and relevant, it's usually not at all intelligent or at all relevant. I mean, I know people who thought Eminem's newest song was intelligent, it was topical as is a fair amount of rap today, but it's not intelligent. The artists like that who come to mind are the guys who're usually on Chapelle's show. Really, though, Chapelle's not intelligent either (funny, but not really intelligent). He has his own show and very young fans, which makes him seem intelligent, I suppose, but that's another discussion entirely. I guess that's also the problem. Rap and Hip-Hop have mostly young fans, and most young people wouldn't know intelligence because they're simply not up on current events and don't understand that the lyrics are simply vague or not at all topical or intelligent. Beyond that, I don't hear any rap or hip-hop artists talking about ethereal/science fiction based ideas (I guess you have to trip acid? Seems the '60s and '70s bands had no problem with it), or historical ideas like progressive rock bands often spoke about (Egyptians, Roman mythology, secret society mythology of centuries antiquity etc.). Most of them talk about "strife" and "life on the streets". Okay, I'm sure a rap artist couldn't really get away with rapping about the two that I've previously mentioned, but then don't blame me or call me closed minded for finding it boring, trite and monotonous. It's the same thing over and over again. If it's not about bitches and cars, it's about life on the streets or some vague political message about "revolution". I'm a good guy, and I'm an open mind, but this stuff just doesn't strike me as interesting or worth listening to. I'm very open minded, I mean, I play with a lot of R&B and Afro-Cuban Jazz artists, but rap is simply not my thing. I'm not closed minded if I give something a chance, and the music proves to be dull and not saying much of anything at all. I mean, I could call a rap fan closed minded because he tried out classic rock and then came and said it was lame, simple and had nothing to say, but I wouldn't because he wouldn't be. He'd be someone who simply didn't like the music, although I could gauge whether the music was too simple, I couldn't tell him that his opinion that it wasn't saying anything was invalid because an opinion can't be invalid. Atleast Talib Kweli has a couple of songs talking about the world's problems on an overall (although most of his songs are still about strife and life on the streets), but his phrasing scheme is similar to that of most rappers A, B, A, B or A, B, C, B, A, C. Beyond that, another thing that puts me off about rap is thier seemingly inherent grammatical errors and misuse of prepositions, for instance, instead of saying "We are primed for revolution" they'd say "We is primed...". I'm sorry, but music with little or no musical complexity, terrible phrasing schemes, monotonous beats and poor grammar just doesn't strike me as good music, that's simply the way it is for me. I'm sure there are HUNDREDS of great musicians who play music with instruments, have complex music, and also rap, but what I'm simply saying is, in my personal experience , rap and hip-hop are pretty much intellectually and creatively void. It's all a subjective argument, certainly.
I couldn't find any lyrics for the song "Hip-hop vs. Rap", by the way. If you would put up a link for them, I'd certianly read them.
I really can't stand rap for the most part, mostly all the lyrics suck, but all that "crunk" is fun to dance to I really love Michael Franti and his band Spearhead, they're considered rap/hiphop (I don't seperate the two)....check out some of their music at www.spearheadvibrations.com
What do you mean? I gave you what I consider to be solid reasons why I don't like the rap I've heard, and given you solid reasons why I don't think, rap or hip-hop (that I've experienced, mind you) is really all that intelligent. It's not like I didn't consider your post, and just continued on posting the same thing I posted before the last or anything like that.
some rap seems to be pretty mindless, i think i prefer rnb over rap and hip hop. a lot of rappers think they're really hard core which kind of pisses me off a bit, they complain about how unfair their lives are and then run back to their mansions with their 9 expensive cars and drink cristal (sp?). seems like all a bit of a wank
isnt it though, always bitchin about the ghetto and then go home to there 3 million dollar mansions and watch their 3 thousand dollar tv... there is some rap out there that i tolerable but for the most part they are always just talkin about their bitches and other stupid shit, i just think theirs no point to it because what are you getting out of it....nothing, absolutely nothing
Wow, you have obviously been listening only to mainstream rap, and are ignoring the fact that all the conscious hip hop is in the underground. Do some research and you'll find deep meaning in hip hop. Rap is all about gangsta, hip hop's about expantion. Check it out, becuase you are wrong.
You are being an idiot. Just because you don't hear something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Look in any city and you will find thousands of hip-hop artists spittin some deep words about everything you have mentioned. You are even stupider for saying most fans of rap and hip hop are young. Excuse me, but this shit has been around since the 70's at least, so you are obviously mistaken on that front. It's just that hip hop is more widely accepted now, and therefore, it would seem that more kids are listening to it too.
Hey man you can't listen to Nelly and Chingy and think you're analyzing hip hop culture. And what rap artists (emphasis on artists) do is highly akin to beat poetry. YOU don't understand it because it's not your culture, but if you dug a little deeper you might find an appreciation for it.
This has little to do with ebonics, because white guys codeified ebonics. But what you're talking about with verb and preposition usage is actually a legitimate dialect, and it follows rules. It isn't the Midwestern Anglo-American dialect, it's not South London dialect, it's urban black dialect. And it is, technically, proper as a spoken form. As far as rhyme scheme goes, you must have a problem with Shakespeare, since he tended to rely heavily on simple abab schemes and iambic pentameter. What I'm hearing is someone looking for reasons to not understand another culture. I used to be the EXACT same way. But your linguistic reasons are nonexistant, and as for not understanding what is being said, that's a personal issue and not an issue with the music. If you know so much about enlightened poetry, why don't you share some?
That is exactly right. Anyone who knows anything about Hiphop doesn't try to state that it's "music" really. It's spoken word over a beat. End of story. No intelligent person has ever tried to state that KRS-One is better than Steppenwolf or anything. They are two different things. My basic argument is that people see the rap on t.v. and then they ignore the whole Hiphop culture, and that's just absurd. If it wasn't for Hiphop there would have never been Rage Against the Machine. And where do you think Nick Hexum got half of his inspiration from? Fact is often stranger than fiction. lol
haha, well, I could have done without Rage Against the Machine anyway. I won't even respond to the Jox, you don't condescend to me and expect a response. To the person who said ebonics has rules. What the fuck are you talking about? There are no "codeified" rules in ebonics. Don't try to pass that off. In that context, there's also a codeified set of rules for a 5 year old who can't properly and has not the capacity to speak the English language. If hip-hop is not considered music, don't put it to music, don't 'sample' music by musicians with real talent, and please, don't ever come into a music school "axing" to be in a hip-hop class. And by the way, no, I didn't like Shakespeare. That's pretty funny that you associated a white guy with a liking for Shakespeare. I found his work primitive. I go more for Giolidoni types. Instead of me putting out poetry, why don't you quote some of your favorite hip-hop artists and something deep they 'spit' in a 'rhyme'. I'd really like to see the stuff you come up with.
Open da herb gate sellin' pure Ganja Babylon come but they undercover They never really want me to stop sellin' Ganja They just wanna take a cut of what you make so far But I'm not havin' it, I load the S.L.R. Pack the Ganja, boom! They break down the door. Pop, pop. Three shots exchanged at close range. I exchanged four shots, I drop and feel pain... So... KRS-One's really intelligent, huh?
I really don't want to start beef, but I sense some negativity from you. It's cool if you don't relate to Hiphop. But you should accept the fact that it does posses relevance in it's true form. And as far as slang goes, that's only free expersion. Like me I can speak proper English when circumstances call for it, or I can just relax and speak as the words come. It's a matter of self control. For someone who can't switch between the two modes, they might have a probelm, but if you can then you are at a win and not a loss. Free your mind and your ass will follow.
Yeah, I think it'd be safe to sense a little negativity coming from me on that one. I'm really not in the mood to start another endless argument over another trivial idea on a forum board, though. I've done that much too many times, and I think I'll just let this one go to the trolls instead.
I love rap, I think it is the greatest music. But that's my opinion, if you don't like it thats fine. But I think that newer rap is turning so, so... MTVish. I like the old school hardcore gangsta rap. Rappers today don't know what they're talking about. Actually I like Lloyd Banks too.
for rap about sci-fi, listen to Deltron 3030. trip hop. for intelligence, try Nonphixion. for some philly shit, try Jedi Mind Tricks. for poetry, try Sage Francis. i listen to mostly prog rock like Yes and Genesis, and i play mad blues and bluegrass and jazz, but i am still just as blown away by sheer genius when i hear deltron and nonphixion. They are MORE intelligent than ANY rock band i have ever heard, and i've heard a lot. you need to know underground shit to understand the culture.
