mainstream "going green"

I was told its because they have to be shipped to a couple different places on ships that run on coal. And they are made out of horrible stuff.

 

Yeah - I agree from that perspective. My assessment of the situation is that it is far to late to change anything, at current levels of awareness. I made a really interesting post about this, however, its not in the context of Environmental awareness but individual personal awareness about every day thought processes such as how they generate their idea of who they are.

The jist of the post was that when you bring information to people about the environment, they perceive that you are condescending them, because environmental knowledge is life changing and given the majority awareness about 'who are person is' and 'how they come to that opinion' an environmentalist is perceived as a threat to a persons sense of pride. Considering that this is true and that the media is lying about environmental issues, like you wouldn't ever imagine possible, environmental awareness will never take shape - IN the time necessary for it to because it relies on one on one communication to come into full force. I think I wrote this post for this forum/sub-forum.

 

It wasnt long ago and it should be on the third or second page.

 

i know what your saying and yes its frustrating for me to see as well. the reality is that "off grid living" is only part of living a sustainable life and for most those folks its the only part..

we would love to go off grid but sadly our only real options here are do without which as you know we are already set up to do,its just making the leap or going solar..

i have researched and read and i just do not see where solar is cost effective right now. by the time it pays for itself its time to replace everything..

there are so many things though that we as humans can do to promote a sustainable culture and live a little bit more of a sustainable life without going off grid..

everything can be done in baby steps. there is no reason to wait till your wealthy and then "go off grid". there are little things everyone can do every day that add to our sustainability. not only as a individual but humanity as a whole..

its not fair for the rich to use "off grid living" as the poster child for sustainability.

few will ever achieve 100% sustainability and that includes those rich folks in their earthships living off grid.that shouldnt matter,what should matter is that each and everyone of us take the time to look at our lives and see what it is that we at that moment can do to inch ourselves towards living sustainably. we all should strive daily to do what we can no matter how small of things they are..

waiting 10 or 15 years till your rich to go off grid is not accomplishing anything.

if everyone just waited till "one day" to do it all really big, think where the planet would be in "10 or 15 years"..

the time is now and no action is too small.

thats what should be promoted, not 60,000 dollar solar units attatched to a earth ship built by some engineer with a scientist wife after they retired early from their 200K a year jobs..

 

I do wish TV would show some average people living in suburbia, on a modest income, attempting to live a more sustainable life.
Even the less rich people are the cliched "hippy types" who have a more extreme view than most people (not a bad thing but perhaps too much for your average Joe.) I don't think we all need to go "off grid" or can build a "eco home" worth hundreds of thousands of pounds...neither do we want to live in a wood boiling our own bathwater.
Absolutely no inspiration for your average person.

I agree.

 

:cheers2:

man its scary when we see eye to eye..

 

I know.

 

The largest problem with environmentalist concerns is that for the most part, they are at its core, problems in over-population. Without major changes in the way of life we have, the only solution would be self-sufficient farm communities. Besides that, we would need jumps on technologies that we just cannot rely on as a solution, when you consider that the most powerful individuals in our world, rely on scarcity and the inefficient use of resources to keep their power. Ie. OIL companies would not be very happy with super efficient solar power to be developed. And since these powerful individuals have the money to both suppress technology and simply not make it happen due to lack of funding, we have such a large task to accomplish in less than 30-100 years before large catastrophes ravage our cities(mainly famines and disease from lack of proper nutrition)

Self-sufficiency is on my behalf intended on protecting myself from what I can only see as inevitable. In a society where our major form of entertainment(TV) acts as both an ignorance generating mechanism AND a place to destress from all the stressful situations we are forced into, this movement which relies on the educated opinions of individuals, will never generate enough momentum to bring sustainability, rather it will delay the inevitable.

 

Dont take it to seriously, life goes on bro's. This earth is not our sole and only play-ground. We will find residency and better lives elsewhere in the universe. IF not, then we wont ever know that we suffered, that we even had this conversation, we wouldn't know that we were wondering if we would ever know.

 

while i agree with some of what you say,your attitude is laughable to me.. thats all im gonna say on the subject..

 

Forecast for Hell this morning.. Frozen over.

 

I have no comment because what you said is completly arbitrary. You only make statements of conclusion, like you have some authority over the truth. I am no punk kid on this forum trying to prove who I am, like you I am an old soul.

I'll only demand this once. Please give me the reasoning behind what you have concluded, such as I have.

Ill say this, judging what my attitude on the subject is based on a few comments, would severly downgrade you in my eyes, into the likes of individuals that do not yet know how to communicate with others. My demand still stands and my patience draws thin.

If you would choose to do so otherwise, may we depart in peace and learn from this experience and forget that which is useless.

{-__-} CP

 

more than just a few comments, i read the thread you referenced earlier in this thread as well.i find your apathy humorous in this context,, nothing more..

if that offends you, oh fucking well..

 

hahhhaha. You are useless to me. Why would it offend me? What do I stand to gain. I am glad I never have to forcefully interact with you, you have no sense of communication, make outlandish assumptions about my attitudes and imagine that you understand everything perfectly, then generate emotional dispositions towards me through them.

Your words are useless. Ill shoot you down if you come close to me. More horribly than you can imagine. Only in defense, only in defence. Cracked... It spills on the ground, as I had warned you. Only in defence of your ignorance.

 

I agree.

These companies are always going to try to sell us things we dont need, this is just another way to make us buy them. We didnt need those products before they "went green", and we dont need them now. Its wasteful.

as far as im concerned i got everything i need and nothing i dont. yay for baking soda!

 

so your saying your not apathetic to earths plight?

i dunno, i find comments like earth is a lost cause im looking out for me and mine so one day they can move to another planet. pretty apathetic.. lol

i dont claim to understand everything perfectly either,but my comprehension skills are adequate i believe for most things..lol

ya know its funny, you are doing in your reply exactly what your accusing me of.. typical..

 

The real question is if the green evolution will continue on.

The way I see it, most companies now don't have a vision. They simply allow Capitalism to be their guiding principle instead of having a vision and allowing Capitalism to be the more or less suitable vehicle for that vision. Most companies now are simply responding to a new blip in consumer demand, and as soon as it dies down their green agenda will disappear just as fast.

Kind of like politics. 99% of these politicians don't really have a backbone, they just adapt their output to appeal to new sector of the population. And so they ultimately become a pawn of the game of politics instead of having a solid dream and either succeeding or failing based on the sole standard of the dream. Such is the way that morality and personal integrity get pushed to the wayside.

If the green revolution keeps on gaining momentum than the companies will be forced to adjust their perogative. But it requires constant push from the public.

 

i dunno, i find comments like earth is a lost cause im looking out for me and mine so one day they can move to another planet. pretty apathetic.. lol

Please refer to the post where I wrote these exact comments, without saying,' Well this is what I thought you meant'

It is better in political discussions to be as articulate as possible. Elaboration is a necessity, much like the elaboration within most of my posts.

I care little how you feel about me. Only to the end of giving you a proper perspective on this issue, which you seem to have no lasting knowledge about, as reflected in your posts which makes big claims without ever reconciling them with reason etc etc.

This is what gets you into trouble. Apathy makes little sense to me, in relation to environmentalism. I am an extensive thinker, I minored in philsophy and I can tell you that if I for one second was apathetic to the problems going on in the environment, I would be digging myself an early grave, considering that the environment IS me, I cannot exist without it. Apathy to me is a non-subject.

Secondly, I am only changing that which is in my power to change. As I said, and I repeat now, I AM the EARTH, the environment ETC, therefore to look out for MINE would be to do so. However, I have gone over many reasons why I believe this is an impossible task, especially when we consider population dynamics and the exponential growth function.

An interesting video on the Exponential growth function can be found on you tube by typing in the key words. They allude to many of the problems with standard ways of addressing environmental destruction, especially this 'to little, to late' green products that will but slightly elongate what I can only surmise is inevitable.

In history this has occurred similarly. If you look at all the great empires they all crumble, due to famines, disease and war. Ours is no exception and the intellectual dynamic within our populations and the populations of the empires is generally similar to those that came before us; a minority of the pop. understands the problems and the repercussions , a minority benefits from the problems, the majority are to ignorant to stop the problems.

Here are the major reasons why things cannot ever become sustainable at current populations.

1. Population is ridiculously high, we are consuming resources at rates that sometimes exceed 50 times they renew themselves - Soil for example and water.
2. Fossil fuels are the main way we feed, keep safe in homes, and transport the materials for the first two. Fossil fuels also are what our medical system is based in, pharmaceuticals are largely petrol based chemicals.
3. Scarcity of the resources above, benefits those who have the power to influence peoples attitudes through various forms of media. Essentially, they will never introduce something into the market that will hurt them and efficient technologies are just those types of products that would succeed in reducing their power and influence, by reducing the scarcity of resources. IE. Fossil fuels industry
4. The wealthiest industrialists in the world, Military industrialist/ international bankers, benefit from scarcity as it has always been an easy way to ensure that war occurs and that their power stays put.

 

Well put Change.

I really don't get why most people "want children". It's like most people just want em because its the thing to do when you're in your prime. I guess a big part of it has to do with learning how to love, but you really don't need children to do that.

 

well if you dont consider it apathetic it certainly is a negative attitude..

im sorry to me reading your words you are indeed saying its a lost cause because society doesnt want to do what needs to be done or even hear what needs to be done. so all your going to do is become self sufficient some day(sorry i didnt get the two quotes where you said you are doing nothing now to attempt to live sustainably but that in 10 or 15 years you hope to go off grid,but im sure you remember making those remarks. ) to protect yourself.

but dont worry, our ancestors will find another planet to trash one day.. that was a nice touch..(yes i know that has more than one possible meaning,but in the context of the rest of your comments it may as well be taken that way since you didnt clarify on what level this trip would take place )

i believe we are the keepers of the earth. i believe it doesnt matter that its a lost cause,it doesnt matter who or what we are up against or what others do.

we as individuals should live each day the way mother earth would have us live.
by walking softly on her,living a minimalistic lifestyle and doing everything we can to heal what little bit of her we are blessed with the gift of care taking..

listing lists of whats wrong and why its can never be accomplished ("hopeless") accomplishes nothing for mother earth.

all it does is give those looking for a reason to do nothing,a reason to do nothing.

so shes sick and their are those raping her as shes dying. shouldnt we as keepers of the earth be there to hold her hand,wipe the sweat from her brow and do our best to comfort her on her death bed?
you would do it for your earthly mother,why not do it for mother earth as well?

i dunno man, i cant help but laugh.. i guess its better than crying..