Jesus Christ

Not being pure intelligence, I'd hesitate to hazard a guess as to why God would do anything. But I'm making the assumption neither you nor neo are pure intelligence either (Note: I didn't say you guys aren't smart). My support of OWB on this was just to point out that I didn't see any conceptual reason why God couldn't limit His own intelligence and still be considered omnipotent and omniscient. And your statement that "God is pure intelligence" is basically just an assertion.

Some people may need to make such assumptions to carry on their religions. There are religions that make the opposite assumption: Calvinism being a notable example.

I don't know quite what to make of this statement. Are you saying that bad outcomes are illusions?

If absolutely nothing happens without God's permission, the God is responsible for Katrina, the holocaust, the swine flu, 911,etc. Faith in such a God wouldn't relax my mind. The theologian who worked out the logical implications of this theory was John Calvin. Since I consider such a God to be a monster unworthy of worship, I'm obviously damned to hellfire for all eternity. There's nothing much I can do about that, since I lack free will and its all predestined. But it doesn't relax my mind, that's for sure.

 

LMAO God is Love

Wordly disasters aint even that bad

Everybody gonna be alright, just have faith and disregard fear

 

World disasters are pretty bad. Millions die, millions go hungry, many are orphaned, et al. That's not so great.

Everyone will be alright, eventually. Given enough time, everything will be.

Btw, the word fear used in the Bible is; מפחד - pachad paw-kkad'

a primitive root;

to be startled (by a sudden alarm); hence, to fear in general:--be afraid,
stand in awe, (be in) fear, make to shake.

One-being-in-awe. When Fred Hoyle was studying the Big Bang theory, he stated that he was "greatly shaken" at what the theory implied. I think that is what is meant by fear.

It's not the same fear one has for an axe murderer. We aren't terrified by God. We are in awe of the 'I AM'.

 

This link talks about the series;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series

Myself, I only read the original trilogy; Foundation, Foundation and Empire, and Second Foundation written by Isaac Asimov.

The link gives this description of psychohistory:
The premise of the series is that mathematician Hari Seldon spent his life developing a branch of mathematics known as psychohistory, a concept devised by Asimov and his editor John W. Campbell. Using the law of mass action, it can predict the future, but only on a large scale; it is error-prone on a small scale. It works on the principle that the behaviour of a mass of people is predictable if the quantity of this mass is very large (equal to the population of the galaxy which has a population of around a quadrillion). The larger the mass, the more predictable is the future.

 

Use as many as you want but after the first one, I ignore the rest.

Okay, if we were created by God, then God either gave us free will or he didn’t and since I didn’t have anything to do with creating mankind, I didn’t have any thing to do with what God did or didn’t do or whether we have free will or not.

And we have a winner, because that is exactly what God did.

And I answered you the same way I will now, just because you are free to chose whatever you want, doesn’t make every choice a good choice in fact some of those choices can be very bad choices, such as jumping off a cliff or stepping in front of a moving car. You’re free to choose them but they are very bad choices.

Only one choice? Let’s say that the story of Adam and Eve is true, God told them not to eat of the fruit of one tree. How many other fruit tree do you suppose existed at that time a hundred, a thousand maybe a million or a billion? So that gives them let’s say about a million choices and all but one are good choices and that is not even considering that new fruit trees would grow every year.

As I mentioned above, we were given free will, the ability to make our own choices even bad ones, not a magic wand that makes all choices that you make good ones and as I pointed out some choices can be very bad choices.

They don’t and interestingly even Jesus, God’s son, used analogies that compared God to man.

Thanks but did you know the Bible never calls God omniscient.

My God does know the future of mankind but because he has lovingly given us free will, that means we can decide for ourselves where we want to be when that future comes to pass.

 

They are only bad if you base them on some other condition. For instance, if you want to live, then jumping off a cliff is a "bad" choice. Conversely, if you want to die, then not jumping off a cliff is a "bad" choice.

then the bible is describing a god that is fallible.

Lovingly given us free will so we can not "obey" so then he can lovingly condemn us to damnation right?
And if God knows the future of mankind, then the verdict has been reached, it's a done deal, there is no choice.

 

So you agree with neodude in believing you have no free will and who you are and what you do, to the smallest detail, was determined from the beginning of time and that would extend to whether you ever experience the end of the cycle of lives?

 

Actually according to you, you have no choice in the matter, you will express yourself as you are predestined to do.

 

Wow, that's really clever there, I'm blown away.

 

Interestingly, I can choose what I'm going to say next but you are just like a robot pre-programed from the beginning of time to say only what you are predestined to say and do what you have been predestined to do and you have no choice in the matter. Are we having fun yet?

 

As you were predestined to be.

 

Interestingly, the only difference between us is that I am aware of the true motives and reasons for saying the things I say and for my actions, while you are merely suffering from the delusion that your ego is actually more important than the universe itself in that it can function independently of all external stimuli and make completely uninfluenced decisions.

 

You can do this all day, all it will do is make you look silly.

 

Actually your philosophy says, you only believe what you were predestined to believe and that you suffering from the delusion that you are aware of anything, you have no true motives or reasons and any "thoughts" that you have about such things are only what you were predestined to have. Even your use of the word "I" is a delusion.

 

Don't you know that according to your philosophy, I have to do it, I can't help myself, I'm destined to do it and have no choice in the matter.

 

Why would the absence of free will preclude my possession of legitimate thoughts, motives, beliefs, and a sense of self?
Here is a hint - it doesn't. All that it means is that all of these things did not originate with me.

 

Yeah, I'm aware of that.
When the English language was developing, people weren't really saying "Hey guys, let's structure everything you say in our language around the idea that free will doesn't exist."
Anyways, congrats on being infantile and passive-aggressively sarcastic, it did a lot for your point of view.

 

Have you heard the one about the Presbyterian minister who fell down the front steps after the Sunday morning service? He stood up, brushed himself off, and said, "Wow. I'm glad that's over with."

 

Pre - Destination IS real.

However, it is not an action of anything outside of our selves.

Yes, we predetermine our own destinations.

Mind is chief. With an evil mind, evil deeds and speech follow.
Mind is chief. With a pure mind, purity in deed and speech follow.
{for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap <-- sound familiar?}
{A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. <-- sound familiar?}

You determind if the next moment exists or not by the actions (mental, physical and verbal) you perform, and how you react to the effects of your own actions. Your own future is conditioned, predestined and predetermined by your own actions in the here and now. Your future (destination) is a direct result of your own conditioning and determinations.

So ... Yes ... Your FUTURE is Predestined ... Predetermined ...

By you ... not by God!

You can help yourself ... You do have a choice in the matter ...

HTML:

 

Being that the events of my life unfold like a long ass non fiction book, I'd have to say yes. At least to some extent. I don't recall where I said everything is predetermined but I do believe everything will be alright.

And who cares if millions "die"? Shit is nothing but the loss of control of this physical body. If necessary, you'll get another one.