Though Zen is derived from Buddhism, the Americanized "new age" version of Zen is more separate from Buddhism than its Far East counterpart, more of a philosophy than a religion. This is how some have come to see themselves as Zen agnostics, Zen christians, or simply Zen. Is there anyone else here who considers themselves Zen but not fully Buddhist?
In my own practice of Zen, I focus on seeking enlightenment through meditation, seek to learn and apply the fundamental concepts of Buddha, the Three Treasures, the Four Noble Truths, and the Eightfold Path. I expose myself to as many koans as I can find, attempting to counterbalance many years of indoctrination into Western thinking and its endless attachments. I spend very little time contemplating a Higher Power because of many past years of unproductive thought invested. My interest in the subject is exhausted. My wife and I study, discuss, and meditate on our own, since there is no Zen group in our area. There are only Buddhist Sanghas here for people who grew up in an Eastern ethnic culture.
I believe that trying to attain Zen works exactly opposite to attaining Zen. Zen is the release of all desires and negativity.. if we're always straining to have or get somewhere... Zen will come to you when you are ready.
I understand that to some degree, but you still have to acquire a little background knowlege to serve as a frame of reference. When I first started reading about Zen, I realized that I had discovered some of the basic concepts on my own, over many years of life experience. I just didn't know at the time that those thoughts fit into a philosophy that had a name. When one has spent many years being indoctrinated into dysfunctional Western thinking in an intense way, the mindset does not go away easily or quickly. What did come more easily a few years ago was the perception that it was time to go in a different direction. Or I suppose I should say that it was easy to see that the time had come for Zen to find me. I suppose a lot of Westerners initially approach Zen in a way that tries to Westernize it, seeking to reduce it to a checklist of beliefs and a reading list of books to cover. That makes no more sense than showing up on a bulldozer to explore a pristine wilderness area. You have to walk down the path, stand quietly, and let the woods show you what they are. The only item on the checklist should be getting off the bulldozer. It seems that asking about Zen is very much like asking someone to define the word maturity. If you need to ask, you aren't going to benefit much from hearing the answer.
While you are fairly correct, you cannot look at it as a self-defeating desire. The desire to end all desire is a self-extinguishing desire. This isn't going to be the best example, but if you remove the fuel to an "Ever-burning flame", is it "Ever-burning", any longer? The other desires that you desire to rid yourself of are the fuel to the Ever-burning desire to eliminate them. Get rid of the fuel, and the last fire will put itself out. Ya dig? I do not consider myself anything, but I find the teaching of Zen Buddhism very interesting. I suppose Zen-anything-else wouldn't be so different. Just change a few names. That's what most religious differences are to begin with, aren't they?
Most of these sweeping, general statements in Zen literature are insightful and profound, but are usually something less than 100% true, if you examine them in detail. That examination process can be quite challenging mentally, and it reminds me on a daily basis how shallow and lazy most Western thinking is. I am just as guilty of this as anyone else. I have noticed several conceptual references to Zen in the Hindu forum. I haven't seen the Zen-Hindu combination mentioned in any kind of literature, but there is a strong historical connection between Hindu and Buddhism. I suppose from a Western perspective, all Eastern thought has more similarities than differences. This merging together of religions is the heart and soul of the New Age movement, but the New Age section of this forum seems to be quite dead. I don't understand this. If you go to the bohemian section of most towns, you will find at least one thriving New Age shop, where people buy books, music, and other items related to all the major Eastern religions.
Zen translates to meditation. I consider myself a Yogacara Buddhist, it's where Zen Buddhism came from. Zen is all pracice and no theory and Yogacara is both.
I consider myself Zen. But also mixed with Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism. Really all Zen is is about being aware of yourself. Then you find your habits, your faults, the patterns. You see who you want to be, and you simply go there.
I do lean more towards Buddhism than any of the other major "religions" (a controversial term to apply to Buddhism, I realize) but can't go so far as to claim the label. There are several issues that I'm currently researching on the E-sangha web site, but it is the 5th Precept that bothers me the most. Having grown up around fundamentalist Southern Baptists, I know how detrimental it can be to attach so much importance to that particular issue. And the position is too extreme to feel like a Middle Path to me. The rest of the Buddhist fundamental concepts, including the Eightfold Path in general, feels very comfortable to me, as if I have known it all of my life, on some level.
You need to understand Buddhism is the ultimate riddle. It's not black and white. The meaning of the 5th precept is if you take mind numbing substances then how can you meditate and achieve enlightenment? Cannabis can be used as a great meditation cheat but look at all the people who don't use it for that and are just wasting it. I get drunk and I know I'm not going to achieve Nirvana while I'm getting drunk but if I drank daily it would never happen. Buddhism is all about how to achieve enlightenment. You need to know that the original Buddhist monks helped form Buddhism and they are extreme right hand path meaning very strict and simple lives vs the extreme left hand path of living in the forest or a cave starving themselves smoking cannabis or taking other psychedelics. There are many meanings and interpretations of what is said. The middle path can be taken as you said and it also has another esoteric meaning of the spine and Buddhism is the path where you raise your kundalini through the middle path. Remember the Buddha has said on different occasions that there is and is not a god and his reason was he told those people the opposite of what they believed so they will question things for themselves and find the truth instead of assuming they already know. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Buddhism is not yes and no.
If it's an idealistic philosophy, it cannot be zen. Even if it's zen, it cannot be zen. The practice is all that matters to me; I despise tradition, symbolism, and philosophy.
You can't do both at the same time, but you can define a balance that works for you. It does bother me somewhat when I read things written by Buddhists who are trying to make this issue one of black and white. They are only expressing their own views, which may or may not be useful. Similar to the lifestyles of some Southern Baptists and Amish. The big problem with an extreme lifestyle is that you can form an attachment to it, which can turn religion into a petty competition over who can do the most perfect job of sticking to a list of external rules. I have seen firsthand how ugly this can become, as it appeals to a dark side of human nature. I like a little philosophy mixed in. That side of Buddhism is the one I love the most.
We all get a good bit of Western philosophy every day, coming in from every possible direction. A little Eastern thought helps balance things out.
I don't really agree with the stark distinction. Heraclitus is very "Eastern." Samuraic tradition is very "Western." That's actually what I hate about New Age. It just seems like wishy-washy stereotypes to me. And the fetish with the exotic.
