Organized Religion must end for humans to survive.

You don't get it. You make it sound like I was talking about a single line! I'm talking about a holy book where on nearly every page, believers are taught to despise non-believers. On almost every page, it prepares the ground for religious conflict. And there are many many examples of calling on believers to kill and wage war.

It's not the same as pointing out that the Bible calls on believers to punish adulterers by stoning them to death.

 

Dude, I was answering somebody else that quoted me.

If we're talking about the christian religion for example I know from experience that the holy book is not the religion and a lot of christians don't take those hateful messages serious. The bible also give opposite messages by the way. But anyway, since it's a fact a lot of christians do not believe literally everything that is written in the bible I can't see why the religion should be erased.

 

i don't see why we wouldn't get rid of all the other excuses if we were getting rid of religion

 

hit the nail on the head

 

i agree. this is how i feel. but with the concept of religion isn't it used as a crutch?

 

I just got back from Morocco, a Muslim country, where Islam is taken seriously, especially in the rural areas. As a Christian, I have a new respect for Islam and how it functions in the daily lives of good folks, going about their business, trying to make a living and doing the best that they can. And the point is right on that for most people, the important thing is not what it says in the book but what it means to the believers. I could say the same thing about atheists. I've attended meetings of atheists in Oklahoma, got to know lots of good people, and had a chance to see how naturalism and humanism function to give meaning to their lives and a basis for ethical behavior. From time to time some atheist zealot will call for jihad:"Organized religion must end for humans to survive." Thank God normal people under normal circumstances usually don't take these calls seriously.

As for religion causing wars and violence, Christianity in the medieval and Reformation periods was guilty of doing that, but since then, until very recently, it's been mainly the secular religions of nationalism, fascism, and Communism that have been responsible for most of the killing. I do find the trend toward fundamentalism in all the world's religions disturbing, but it's not something that can be eradicated by attempting to ban it.

Yes, religion is often a crutch, but crutches are sometimes necessary or useful. Take them away, and a lot of people would find it hard to function.

 

all religion is false even christiaity and jehova witness. because once your a religion you become a clique and judge others. once you judge you begain to hate. if you hate you loose vibration and there is no acceleration. the only real belief system should be used is to love your creator. who is god. all bits of knowlage summed up in three letters god.

religion will be destoryed because it doenst allow everyone to love properly. so god said he set his council on earth. and jesus will be the king. we wont have to belive in anything because once jesus comes he will end the darkness that shades religion. he will end sickness, death, and greed which religion is formed

 

^ sweeping blanket statement that isn't true

 

I just want to say I fully agree.

 

This is where the trouble often starts. In a small community, the popular religion becomes the only means by which people are taught right from wrong, and taught how to fit into society. It then becomes easy for them to say that people with different beliefs are bad.

For a while, they would struggle in the transition. They would eventually find ways to adjust.

 

Right. Parochialism can breed intolerance. But the people I ran into in some pretty small villages in Morocco seemed generally friendly and reasonably tolerant of a stranger. Just a random thought, but in the small town that I live in in Oklahoma, people take their Christianity seriously. From time to time, debates rage on in the local newspaper about evolution, and a couple of self-described experts on Islam do a running diatribe against Muslims in the op ed section. But most of us regard these folks as cranks, and go about our business without malice.

Could the same be said about you if you were forced to convert to a religion? People will probably try to adjust as best they can to just about any situation, including cancer, but will they be happier? And should they be forced to? If you take away a lame person's crutches, (s)he could crawl. Is that okay? Historically, we've had periods of upheaval when traditional religious belief lost its grip. The Hellenistic and post-Republican Roman eras come to mind. To secular intellectuals, these were exciting times, spawning such philosophies as Cynicism, Stoicism, Epicureanism, and Skepticism. But many ordinary folks experienced a spiritual void, leading to the rise of mystery religions like the cults of Isis, Artemis, Mithras and eventually Christianity. A popular novel of the period, The Golden Ass, by Lucius Apuleius, tells of a young uprooted wanderer, out of place and confused, who gets himself into trouble, and literally makes an ass of himself. He finally finds relief in Isis, who turns him back into a human. Without Isis, the young man would be at the mercy of Tyche (chance). Valid or not, the book expresses the yearnings of the uprooted for the security that the goddess could provide. Psychiatrist Eric Fromm coined the term Escape from Freedom to describe this all too human response to conditions intellectuals might find liberating.

 

that's a matter of basic survival, not war.

 

I have to say that this kind of activity in a small town setting must be extremely rare.

 

That's because you were a visitor. If you had decided to stay, you probably would have been pressured to conform to their ways. That's the way it worked in the small Southern towns I grew up in.

No. You can make people pay lip service, but you can't change their thoughts. I'm not open to rhetoric or propaganda anymore, so I can't really be converted to anything.

This whole discussion is highly theoretical. There is no way to get rid of organized religion in America. It's not going to happen. Ever.

Fromm concisely summed up the whole unsolvable problem with religion. Too many people don't want the truth. They want to hear good news and promises of a brighter future. That is the kind of message they will support with their time, effort, and money.

 

We're movin' toward a consensus here. Religion is too big to get rid of. The best we can hope for is to change it incrementally from something mind-crippling and oppressive to something less so. Fromm made the distinction between authoritiarian and humanistic religion. It's the latter we need to be encouraging rather than waging jihad against them all.

 

I can live with that.