National Healthcare ~> For? Or Against?

How do you feel about nationalized healthcare ~

are you For it?

Or Against it?

Why?

Any personal experiences to share?

 

I believe in universal health care, but not provided by a state monopoly.

Personally I'm too healthy to have much need for any health care. I avoid the UK state health care system like the plague though.

 

i really like the fact that children, the elderly and the disabled, here in the U.S., are GUARANTEED care,

but i still feel that healthy folks should be productive and, yes, pay for themselves.

Right now, the costs of all this new-fangled equipment and meds/meds research, are making it impossible for ANYONE to pay for themselves,

so, basically, EVERYONE is being subsidized by whomever ~

today, the insurance company our employers subscribe to,

tomorrow,

well,

 

Whatever we come up with for America I hope it's been examined and approved of by accountants. They can tell you if the numbers add up especially over the long term. Some of these universal systems from what I've read are more complicated to fund and manage than Americans realize. Look at the French system's problems and it's ranked No 1.

BBC NEWS | Europe | French healthcare is 'badly run'

French hospital workers march against cost cuts - Taiwan News Online

 

everyone has the right to live. that's all i gotta say about that.

 

The fact the US pays more per capita on health care every year for each citizen compared to countries with even nationalized health care shows our system is rather fucked. But at the same time government monopoly on health care is not the answer, reforming our system; especially that of prescription drugs, and providing government health care for people who geniuleny can't afford their own healthcare is the going towards the right way.

 

Has anyone heard Obama give his reasons for not advocating a single payer system?

 

One of the first things you'd have to do is make it affordable to those who can afford it.

Right now, the bills would be so astronomical, almost no one could pay,

so right off the top, you're going to have to lower the costs by at least 90%, perhaps even more,

and the medical field isn't going to like that, much...

An example:

Treatment for HepC with ribavirin and interferon alpha, 48 weeks = $80,000 +

Add in a few adverse reactions, like your white cell count dwindling away to nothing, requiring even MORE meds (Procrit ~ very expensive!)

and, well, i couldn't have afforded even 10% of that year's bill.

 

So, other than the fact that their physicians actually CARE about, and for, the patients,

the system is a mess?

And it looks like the standard of care is about to take a major plunge, judging by the protests.

Maybe not a copy of the French, so much.

 

ahhhh, another, the evils of universal healthcare thread....

wonderful...

We enjoy our system up here... in the long run, it costs most off us less then the 'american' system.

Of course, everytime this subject comes up, someone is sure to start telling horror stories of long waits and such that are caused by such a system.

I've never been in an ER for more then 4 hours. I have never seen a person die in the waiting room. I have never seen or heard of a person (canadian) whom was in need of emergency treatment who was denied because they couldn't verify his credit worthiness.

My 5 year old cousin was diagnosed with Lukemia. Over the next 2 years, she recieved well over 2 million dollars in treatment. People don't bleed out trying to find their insurance number, people don't get transfered from hospital to hospital trying to find one that will take their insurance.

When we are sick, and wish to go see a doctor, we do so, when our child is sick, we take them in, not look to see if we have enough cash to pay them first.

I make no claims as to what other countries systems are truly like, but I know that all the horror stories that circulate about what our (canada) system is like when americans talk about U.H., is TOTAL CRAP.

Our health care costs us less over our lifetime, then the american one does it's citizens, unless of course you are perfectly healthy and never go to a doctor. (if you jumped up and waved your arms at this one and want to brag about how healthy you are and how you don't need healthcare... wait 30 years)

 

Fyrenza,

If you and others want more info on the issues with the French system here's a good link. It's a Canadian source.

Health care in France: facing hard choices

 

Ummm,

Tom?

No one has said anything about any horror stories ~

well, ummm, until you did...

See, here's the thing:

We're getting this, whether we want it or not.

We can either participate, and try to make it something we can all live with,

or keep snivelling about the downside.

Make no mistake ~

i'd LIKE to explore both sides of the issue,

but it truly isn't worth getting into some sort of Instant Ban Territory, by having the discussion get out of control.

It really IS in all of our best interests to help each other with this,

especially since it's one of the ideals EVERYONE holds dear to their hearts, imho.

So. You obviously like the Canadian system, and from the sounds of it, it would appear to be a LOT like an HMO. (Are you familliar with Health Maintenance Organization systems?)

What, and when, exactly, do you pay for y'all's care?

We pay $20 per office visit, to see our Primary Care Physician, and $30 to see specialists;

generic prescriptions cost $10/month, name brands cost $25/mo;

we pay for all of the above, and any other medical-type (dental, optical, first aid, etc.) expenses with a Flex Card ~ a credit card that we promise $150/mo from Dear's pay to have "loaded" with $1,800 for the year. These monies are PRE-tax, which lowers our net income, thereby lowering our Income Taxes, and we can change the amount each year, to offset the tax brackets.

For this insurance, i believe we pay approximately $300/mo. (It was sure nice when i worked, too, and had my own coverage, paid for by my employer, but i wasn't a cheap date... )

Okay, and i was just in the hospital, and can tell you all about my care, if you're interested,

or we can cut to the chase, and i can tell you it was excellent.

(i must say, though, that when i went out to the Emergency Room Entrance to SMOKE ~ no kidding! THAT's where the "Smoking Area" was!!! ~ i DID hear some horror stories about the ER wait times, treatment, etc., but it sounded like the folks just brought their children to the ER, rather than taking them to the dr.'s office, ... something about No Charge for ER services, but a nominal charge for an office visit, and some folks truly ARE poor.)

Moving right along... :rofl:

 

Thank you! :sifone:

Cripes, it sounds JUST like OUR insurance, except theirs is cheaper!

It's the nurses, right now, that are doing it ALL, here in the U.S.,

but in France, it's the private doctors ~

Wonder why the gov doesn't just up the minimum payments ~ even TRIPLED, they'd still be paying way less than we do...

 

Here's one reason I mentioned that I hope U.S reforms are approved of by accountants. 50% of Japan's hospitals are having problems with deficits because their gov't keeps medical prices artifically low. This makes healthcare cheap in Japan but this has made it difficult for Japanese hospitals to properly balance their books. An accountant could have told them this would be the situation with their approach.

Japanese Pay Less for More Health Care : NPR

 

I forsee a problem with universal health care here because so many American's bitch and moan over nothing... I see the system being taken advantage of. I really don't know a ton on this subject though.

 

:rofl: "Knowing A Ton" wasn't a prerequisite!

Welcome to Hip Forums ~ glad to meet you!

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Yeah, that's what i was trying to get at when i said that the costs of all the medical stuff (research, development, equipment, training, specialists, etc., etc.) are going to HAVE to come way down ~ to something reasonable.

 

each province here has different systems that all basically do the same thing.

Ontario's is called OHIP, ontario health insurance plan.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ohip/ohip_mn.html

Not everything is covered, but almost any emergency thing is. I have never heard of a case of someone who wasn't treated in an emergency because of an issue of no coverage, although there are many cases of things that are consider elective procedures that are not.

There is no doubt we pay for it in the taxes we pay, but nothing compared to what we don't have to put out in order to get basic health care. Generally, if you are confined to the hospital, ward care is covered, although if you wish a private or semi private room they may charge for it, same as tv hookups and the like.

Drugs are covered on a base by base situation, at varying rates. This is an area we have serious problems in our system, because of lack of intelligence in the system. As an example, Wellbutrin and Zyban are the same drug, one is covered, one is not, depending on how the doctor writes the script. Some rarer, and hence more expensive drugs that people get prescribed for serious illnesses also have a strange hit or miss coverage.

But what it all comes down to is that we pay more in taxes to make sure we and our fellow citizens don't die sitting in a waiting room because they don't have the right coverage.

As for whether or not it is 'the best' system or not, I have no clue, but it is definitely better then the american one, and that is based not only on my opinion, but on the opinion of every single non-rich american who has moved to canada that I have ever talked to. The reason I say, non-rich, is because if you have oodles and oddles of cash, I have no doubt you can get much faster service in the US then you can here.

As for the quality of care, there are few things that can be done in the US that can't be done here. A lot of medical advances come from canadian research and development.

 

AS one that chooses Not to use any health care system, especially any organized by those that try to tell you what to do....I DEMAND the possibility to opt out and choose my own Way....and am willing to go the distance to enforce my rights of free will.

Other than that I'm for it....lol

 

ChronicTom,

How do you feel about the way the Canadian system was portrayed in Michael Moore's SICKO? I found some Canadian journalist who were critical of Moore's portrayal of the Canadian system.

TheStar.com | entertainment | Canadian media needle Sicko

 

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i've seen and heard of that with the HMO's, also, but i can't think of any situation like that.

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Oh, WHOA! Hold everything!!!

WARDS??? Nooo... By FAR, too unsanitary, and,

well,

No.

Semi-private? Okay.

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Yeah, i went through that, but it was "figured out" to be Covered.

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Oh, hey ~ the U.S. is down with that! NO ONE can be refused emergency care based on, well, anything.

And i've never been, seen nor heard of anyone being turned away because of the "wrong coverage," here, either.

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Other than perhaps having a private physician, along with a couple of specialists, on your payroll, i'm pretty sure that no matter how rich you are, you get pretty much the same treatment, and you feel the sting of the costs in your back pocket.

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Without a doubt!

Yet and still, that Ward business... That's like a step back in time, to days when nosicomial infections were just some mysterious something that could kill folks.

It would be a step down for many of our more indigent citizens,

but unless and/or until France's system could be tweaked into something actually workable,

it would definitely be do-able.