Yet another pissed off "nice guy" ranting about how much relationships suck.

Hello, I'm Geoff and I'm a nice guy. Also a virgin, never had a girlfriend, can count the number of hugs I've gotten in the past year on one hand.

While I like not being a douchebag I hate not being able to play the part of the man and be one. I can't make the move, I'm not confident in myself. I know going off posting here going "boo-hoo me" isn't going to help, saying "I can't do X" will only reinforce that thought in my mind but this is a good place to let off some steam and get some opinions. I can't write a long winded note like this and post it on Facebook, and other people really don't care to hear about this shit much in person. I'm mostly just venting here. Any sort of responses are appreciated.

My introduction to the whole idea of relationships was with a girl in grade eleven. This girl was one of the few girls, probably the only, who I actually seriously had an interest in for a reason other than for physical reasons. We were talking a lot, she had a good level of trust going with me, she talked to me about her boyfriend being a jerk, etc etc. All a bunch of crap girls say to guys when they friend-zone them. Yet for some retarded reason I cared to listen to her spew this shit at me because why? Only because I genuinely cared about her feelings and was willing to be open with her and listen to her! Imagine that! I'm such a spineless pussy because I actually care about a girl. So I should have gotten the hint the first time she told me she just wants to be friends when I work up the courage to tell her that I liked her. The second time drove the point home and I mostly stopped talking to her. Then I went to prom with her, soon after that she was on her fifth boyfriend or so. She's a total lost cause with me now and that's fine, I'm over her. I'm left with a protective feeling for her, though. She'll always have a special place with me even if I never got to have sex with her. I was great friends with her and she meant a lot to me, and she always will.

So here I am, done my first year of university, literally surrounded by girls all day (school is 80% female. I have learned that is a bad thing) and I'm still stuck not being able to make my intentions known to a girl. I feel so behind everyone else. I'm 18, soon 19, that's not all that old I know, but when it seems like everyone else lost their virginity when they were 14 and everybody of age is out partying and getting laid constantly, I really feel like I'm in a minority. To a guy, being a virgin is very, very bad in our backward, worthless, cancerous society because it's a rite of passage and a measure of status. I don't even care about the sex. If I'm in a relationship, the sex will come and that is completely okay with me. I just want someone to cuddle with every now and again, I feel deprived, lonely, and angry more often than not.

I read online sources like askmen.com and apparently I'm a wimp. I'm not a "real man" I'm not the alpha male, I have no game. I am so fucking sick of being told how I'm supposed to be to create attraction.. I have NO desire to be one of those guys who absolutely must sleep with 35 girls over the summer break in order to have my manhood validated. I don't need notches on my belt.

I'd just love to be blessed enough to meet a girl who I can feel comfortable around, and I'd be beyond words if she started a conversation with me. I look at her, she looks at me, and something just feels right. Just that. A little reciprocation is really encouraging to us "nice guys." Girls, "nice guys" are not spineless wimps. Some of us may just be born lacking self confidence, be it in how we were raised, for whatever reason. Some of us just don't have confidence pouring out of our asses like we're supposed to. I'm not asking girls to make the first move, I can deal with the fact that making the first move is my job. But Christ, can you RECIPROCATE a little? Don't sit there while I'm the one doing all the talking, making all the plans, I feel like you're not interested and that doesn't give me and other nice guys the push we need. We can stand on our own feet, we just need a push. Don't discount us as pussies who won't stand up for ourselves if we're a little intimidated by girls. But I'm sure all you girls have better things to do than give nice guys training wheels, oh what, like just sitting around passively, being attractive while hordes of guys hit on you and you get to sort them out in order.

Being a nice guy almost makes you hate women, but deep down you're in pain and you question your motives. Are you really "nice" or is it a mask to weasel sympathy out of the opposite sex?

I probably just need a hug.

 

if your school is truly 80% female....this will surely work itself out...they will be hunting for guys by christmas...they will find you...just be a little more patient and less douchy .....trust me....4 girls per guy...hang around the math dept......those babes can figure out odds and stats...you might have a better shot.....edit..you may want to 'man' up and drop the hug shit

 

First of all most lads lie about loosing there virginity at a young age,because they want to be known as the odd one out . Most dont loose it untill much later what ever they may say , and for those who do lose it young , so wot

and just because some one you asked out said no, no does not meen never, when i first met -the now, mother of my son , she said no , and no and no, my point being , it may of took me nine months, but i git her in the end.
I would advise you stop reading online sources, which just tell you crap.
Like i said, no, does not meen never, ask some one out, wots the worst that can happen, she says no , so wot, its not the end of the world, just ask some one else, and keep asking , you will get there in the end.
AND DONT TRY TO BE SOME ONE YOUR NOT IN ORDER TO IMPRESS A GIRL, WOMEN HAVE REALLY GOOD BULLSHIT DETECTORS

 

/hug

 

It's too late for you, might as well turn to drugs or murder/suicide.

But seriously, im 22 and still have my V-card probably because i focus on my hobby too much and don't care to meet new females. I don't give a shit one way or another...

 

right on bro!!!

 

Christ on a stick I'm dumb when I have those kinds of nights...

I've got a date in an hour and a half. Well, hopefully she sees it as a date. I've known her since September. We met at university but we went to the same high school but never really talked at all, so we just naturally became friends since we recognised one another.
Even if she doesn't see it as a date this is the first time I'll be at least hanging out with her and only her, so it's a start.

Oh yeah, and thanks Oxymorph. Good sarcastic reality check.

 

Dating has to do with Value. How much value do you appear to have in the eyes of a girl. Women are pre programmed to look for leadership qualities for protection and procreation. In dating it isn't so much nice guys finish last it's that nice guys may not reflect outwardly the qualities that attract women. Confidence is key...Women get hit on alot more than men and must quickly sort out those who are date worthy. The guys that get the most girls are the ones that need them the least. They are confident and appear as a challenge to females. They do not appear desperate or needy. I am generally speaking as their are all different types of people out there looking for different things.

My point is this. Work on yourself first. Work on building your confidence. Find out who you are, what you like to do, what goals you want to achieve, etc. Have direction. Then you should spend time talking to girls , any girls so that you are comfortable around them. This too will build confidence. You talk to enough girls you will find a few that you feel a connection with and ask them out. I always tell myself that I am the prize not them. Why should I want to go out with them, not the other way around. IMO being a nice guy keeps a girl but getting them is about confidence and self worth....

 

woh wait a sec, you go to a school thats 80% female? i go to one thats roughly 3 to 1 guys, count your blessings my friend. And i haven't had a girlfriend yet either / still a virgin. the odds are far in your favor.

 

all true....but....nothing builds confidence like snaggin your first pussy....like I said...DO NOT TELL YOUR DATE THAT YOU NEED A HUG.......good luck dude....also...dont cheap out on any tips while your out.....dont go into any 'tragic' life stories.......dont reference your mom......dont say any racist or antigay shit......you get the picture....be yourself

 

First, don't listen to people who make you feel like losing your virginity is a right of passage into manhood, or anything for that matter. Virginity is whatever its possesser makes of it and nothing more. It is something personal, and you do not need to lose your virginity by a certain age. You lose it whenever you feel comfortable doing so.

Second, I understand how you feel being a "nice guy." I am dating a nice guy and am also very close friends with one. I constantly have to remind both of these people that confidence is the key. Confidence is what typically attracts females, not being a douche bag. A lot of people, including the nice guys themselves, think nice guys never get what they want because they are not a jerk to women, which often causes confusion toward women and a dislike for women. Just because someone is confident doesn't mean they have to be an ass. One can be confident without going overboard and turning into a narcississtic prick. Yes, the women who date jerks are stupid for doing so, but I just wanted to clarify that the confidence is what draws them in. You, too, can have this confidence, only with the added bonus of being a respectful, caring individual.

I always found myself attracted to nice guys who know they have something going for them. I don't mean they are arrogant. Arrogance is an absolute turn off for me. I just mean they recognize their good qualities, don't self loathe, and don't fear asking women out and making a move.

 

I dont think buddy needs you to give him the 'virginity' speech.....he is askin for advice on a relationship with a girl....and weather you like it or not.....''first sex'' is most definately a ''right of passage''....save you virgin speech for your kids and lets help this dude get a girlfriend....we can discuss virginity when the time comes....dude...this girl is like your friend that hangs with 'nice guys' and you blew her off cause she didnt get it.... think about it...no dis on the poster i am talkin about here...i am sure you are a very nice person

 

same stuff, be yourself and just act normal and dont be scared to talk to whoever interests you.

although, i never initiated convos in high school and i managed to get my dates and everything, was always girl asking me out...

which i like...

anywho you just need an outgoing girl, they are best for shy people heh.


who cares about being a virgin or not, its not a big deal lol

 

That is all I was trying to say, only in a much longer way. I think he shouldn't have to feel that losing his virginity is what makes a person a man because it's really not. I wasn't trying to preach. As far as getting a girlfriend goes, like I said, just have confidence without being a jerk. You'll find someone eventually.

 

just think to yourself, "this bitch aint shit" whenever your talking to a woman, it will make you feel more confident.

also I totally understand where your coming from when you say being this way makes you start to hate women, at times the feminine lifestyle seems almost.... insulting when you view it through the eyes of a man who knows better than the pompous assholes

 

In the first post I was just venting, I don't personally see losing one's virginity as a rite of passage, I just get the impression that society regards it as a rite of passage, and I suppose it is in a sense but it's not something to gauge your self-worth with.

I don't really care much to get all down on myself, I only want to improve and I'd really appreciate some constructive advice. I'm just sort of tired of these conventions (like the polarization of the male gender, nice guys and jerks, wussbags, emotional tampons and what have you) so I was just blowing off some steam cause I get frustrated with that shit all the time. Now is not the time to get frustrated.

Tonight I just went to a fair that just opened up in town. I paid for it, I made it clear to her that it was intended to be just me and her (she asked beforehand if it was just me and her going, I replied with "that's what I had in mind). She was cool with it just being us and she accepted me paying for the night. To me, being clear that I wanted it to be us alone and paying for the night screams "date" and clarifies my intentions with her. Of course, I can't really be sure of what she's thinking/what she may or may not realize. I think I've established that I'm not into being "just friends" because friends don't pay for stuff like this and friends don't exclude other people because they want time alone, especially friends of opposite sexes. I'm hoping she can put two and two together. The movie (crappy date idea I know) last week I also paid for and made sure it was just us going.

My concerns are, and what I need advice with, is in the area of making a move. The whole night felt really casual, conversation was casual. Now, I don't really know what it would be otherwise, or what else I'd talk about, I mean the whole night wouldn't consist of us cracking sexual innuendoes to one another. I did complement her on her nice singing voice (we have a common musical interest and I've heard her sing a few times) and she said thanks in a bit of an apprehensive tone as if she wasn't expecting it. I think the compliment was welcome. If I were complimented I'd respond in a similar fashion, not because I don't like the compliment, but because I'm not used to getting them.

Of course whenever there was an opening I made a witty comment as best I could, stuff like that pops into my head from time to time so I just say it. She also makes some little jokes from time to time. The overall tone just didn't seem to fit my preconception of what I think a date should be like, it felt like a couple of friends hanging out. I'm not really into that, I don't want to come off as "just friends."

I guess I feel like I'm getting mixed messages from her, I should probably just keep making moves and testing her responses, but I'm not against taking things slowly. I'd prefer to, actually.

Upon leaving her car (yeah I have to put up with the emasculating experience of being driven by a girl who drives a standard) I said that we should go to the fair again, I mean we both enjoyed it and we didn't get all that much time there, there was another ride we wanted to get more of. She said yes to that, and then upon opening the door and stepping out, I said "Maybe we can call that a date" and she responded with some sort of a laugh, kind of a combination of a snicker and a "har har" so it wasn't an all out HAHA kind of laugh. I don't know what to make of that response but:

1) It wasn't a rejection
2) She might have thought I wasn't being serious, it could have been taken as a flirtatious joke, I tried to keep my tone of voice as level as possible and I thought I did pretty well in doing that but it's still possible she may have taken it too lightly.
3) She might not have expected it and didn't know how to respond, maybe she was a bit flattered and lost for words. She's open to going to the fair again. This might mean that the friendly notion of hanging out is good with her but she wasn't expecting the move of me calling it a date, which is loaded with implications. I would worry about this, but I'm not because:

1) It wasn't a rejection
2) It's pretty obvious that I'm trying to get a date thing going, with paying and keeping things private between us and so far she's been going along with it.


So that was a damn long post.

tl;dr: How does one make a move on a girl, we're talking about a "third date" and how does one make conversation go in a more favorable direction, other than plain casual conversation one would have with a friend?

 

Just so ya know, girls don't usually laugh when we get asked on a second date, we will however laugh when we feel awkward.

 

You are overthinking EVERYTHING waaaaaay too much. First of all, unfortunately I'm with sarahrei here. Sounds like it was a semi-rejection she gave you. From the sounds of it (hanging out twice with only casual conversation) you are in the friend-zone with this girl.

You need to stop analyzing situations to the most minute detail and start just acting care free. Not caring will get you further than worrying about things too much.

And, in response to your first rant... There are nice guys and there are guys lacking confidence and self-esteem, who although they may be nice, think that girls only like assholes because they aren't getting any. Luckily, you're only 18, you have plenty of time to accept yourself for who you are and start being more confident.

You say you don't know how to make a move. It's not complicated. You just have to start getting out of your comfort zone. If you like a girl on a first date show it. Stay close to her, be a little flirty, tell her what you think about her. Start doing the things you want to do and don't worry about what she may think. If you show some signs of affection or even tell her you like her/think she's hot and she doesn't respond you probably won't be going anywhere.

And like you said, sex isn't a big deal. Build a relationship with a girl that interests you and eventually the sex will come. Just don't have the idea of getting sex in your head right away otherwise it will just make you awkward. Hope this helped a bit.

 

You mean sex comes later?

 

(good) Relationships are great.
You're a whiny loser that wants one, and is only putting them down childishly, because you want one so much.
You don't have to be one.
Man up.
Act real.
Realize that being nice and being a pussy are totally different - you are the latter.
Don't be afraid to talk to girls, or be yourself around them.
Don't be afraid to be a gentleman either.
Don't put pressure on getting a date with a girl when you first meet her unless things seem to be right. You don't want to make anything feel forced or make yourself screw up something that could've gone great if you'd've taken it slower.
Just learn how to be friendly and outgoing towards chicks, while showing some interest beyond friends (i.e. don't be afraid to make tit jokes just cause they have them - tell them they look pretty or joke about how you like that shirt if they have a lot of cleavage going, etc.)
Don't put too much focus on getting a chick - make sure you save time for making yourself happy, and improving on yourself.
Stop bitching like an emo.