calling all bible thumpers!

Discussion in 'Sanctuary' started by Lady of the Freaks, Apr 28, 2009.

  1. Lady of the Freaks

    Lady of the Freaks Senior Member

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    i would like to hear opinions on the subject of divorce. when is it acceptible for a Christian to divorce a spouse (if ever)? and under what circumstances? under what circumstances is divorce a sin? and what are the consequences?

    i may roll out a scenario later in the thread, but for now i'd just like to hear opinions, hopefully with an explanation of why you believe what you do. it might also be helpful to define your terms, eg. if a person is married in a civil ceremony rather than in a church, is s/he considered married or requiring a divorce according to your beliefs? thanks!
     
  2. OneExodus

    OneExodus Member

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    I think its ok to get a divorce is when a spouse is causing pain to the other or cheating. I think its a sin to marry someone and divorce them because you don't love them anymore
     
  3. Lady of the Freaks

    Lady of the Freaks Senior Member

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    thanks for the response. but if you don't mind, what are these beliefs based on?
     
  4. OneExodus

    OneExodus Member

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    I'm not a christian but a rasta. But before I converted that was something the church i went to said. I never really looked much into it because I'm not married nor planning on marring in a few years. But I'll look into it here pretty soon
     
  5. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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    The Sacrament of Matrimony delivers grace to one man and one woman from God. Divorces, per say, can occur over issues like the marrying of a non-Christian to a Christian. Declaring the whole Sacrament invalid (annulment) would probably be more common and those deny a true marriage ever took place.

    Another issue is if one partner is unfaithful to the partner, then they may separate, but not remarry. If the unfaithful partner had the intentions at the administering of the Sacrament to be unfaithful, then it is grounds for annulment and a true marriage can follow.

    Two fairly decent (and occasionally thoughough) resources:
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05054c.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulment_(Catholic_Church

    I reccommend reading them.
     
  6. Lady of the Freaks

    Lady of the Freaks Senior Member

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    i think i can assume if you're a catholic you believe anyone who divorces and remarries regardless of the reason is living in sin unless the church annulls the marriage. for non-catholics that's really not an option.

    i'm more interested in hearing what people think of cases such as abandonment without cause, abuse and adultery committed by the husband rather than the wife. must women in such cases live alone for the rest of their lives rather than divorce and remarry to avoid sinning? what say you all?
     
  7. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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    Well there is another dispensation when a non-Catholic and Catholic marry, there are conditions that an anullment is not necessary to remarry. I am not a canon law expert, so I don't know.


    Again, this will depend on the very specific situation. Did he intend to commit adultery when they were saying their wedding vows, or what? I will repeat that I am not a a canon law expert, so I cannot say for sure. But it seems as though that if a woman is in a domestic violence situation, she has the right and obligation to herself to separate from her husband, but not to remarry.
    What is better: being forced to live in a domestic situation in which violence occurs, or to live by oneself with your family's support? (By the way, the Church does not say that you cannot get a civil divorce to get the benifits of child support or whatever in separation).

    People need to realize that sometimes God demands hard things from us. Christianity isn't a fluffy bunny of a religion. It is demanding, but it is pure freedom as well.
     
  8. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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  9. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Where as I don’t think Bibles are for thumping, I hope you don’t mind me answering anyway.

    When is it acceptable for a Christian to divorce a spouse?
    Jesus at Matthew 5:32 said: “However, I say to YOU that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery...”.
    The word translated as fornication is porneia and porneia is understood to involve the grossly immoral use of the genital organ(s) of at least one human; also there must have been two or more parties (including another consenting human or a beast), whether of the same sex or the opposite sex.
    So as Jesus said; porneia is the only acceptable reason for a Christian to divorce a spouse

    But what if a Spouse should feel like her life is threatened, then the Bible also talks about separation, and there are several acceptable reasons for separation but in the case of separation neither spouse would be free to remarry.

    As for divorce being a sin, it is not a sin per say, the sin is in the porneia that allows for it. As for the consequences of divorce, they are many and varied but the only scriptural consequences are for the one who committed the porneia.

    As for who is married and who is not, marriage in our day and age is two things.

    One is a civil marriage, that puts the ruling authorities on notice that you are married, a marriage certificate etc. This is required of Christians because Christians are to obey the government as long as doing so doesn’t conflict with God’s laws. But if the government doesn’t require it you don’t have to do it.

    The second is marriage in the eyes of God and the community and in Bible times, often all that was needed was to take your wife home with you and begin living together. But now days it conventional to have a ceremony that includes a vow before God but although God probably finds it pleasing, I don’t think he requires it. God just requires that you be committed to each other.
     
  10. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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    Check it out! This is agreement nuber 2!

    The Sign is Nigh!:D
     
  11. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    I already touched on this but to answer these more specifically:
    In cases such as abandonment without cause and abuse, the spouse can separate from the offending mate but not divorce them and can not remarry unless the offending mate should commit porneia in the future.

    In cases such as adultery divorce and remarriage is an option but if you forgive the mate and accept them back into the marriage bed, you can not divorce them for that act they would have to commit porneia once again.

    As Ukr-Cdn has said obeying God in this matter may not be easy but marriage should not be entered into lightly.
     
  12. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    :eek: what are we going to do this just can't go on!
     
  13. Lady of the Freaks

    Lady of the Freaks Senior Member

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    many people interpret scripture to mean that women are held to a higher standard than men. that women cannot divorce men, but men can divorce women. did early Christians interpret scripture in this manner?
     
  14. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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    It goes both ways.
     
  15. Lady of the Freaks

    Lady of the Freaks Senior Member

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    what scriptural reference clarifies this?
     
  16. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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    That men and women are equal?

    Gal. 3:28 We are all equal. We may have different requirements (women are called to veil during prayer) and our roles may differ (women cannot be preists) from God, but our worth is equal.
     
  17. Lady of the Freaks

    Lady of the Freaks Senior Member

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    why doesn't matthew clarify that expectations re: divorce applies equally to men and women?
     
  18. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    No I don't believe that the early Christians believed that. I know that in the Christian Congregation today, men and women are treated exactly the same unless the Bible itself makes a distinction between the two.

    If you will notice in my comment I tried not to use gender specific language mainly because in matters of divorce gender makes no difference and a woman has as much right to divorce a man as vice versa.

    As for why Matthew didn’t say that, as I said; if the Bible doesn’t make a distinction then no distinction should be made.
     
  19. AT98BooBoo

    AT98BooBoo Senior Member

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    Paul did say that husbands were to love their wives as God loves his people so that means they are not to cheat on them or be abusive or abandon them.
     
  20. JusSumguy

    JusSumguy Member

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    It's not the unforgivable sin. And only the lord knows what's in your heart. :)


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