DMT, the Pineal Gland, and a couple theories

I am thinking, therefore I am living.


Lets start of saying that the chemical DMT is PROVED to be produced in the pineal gland (almost positive).

Knowing that we can go on to examine the pineal gland to try to get a better idea of how DMT effects the brain.

The pineal gland was originally believed to be a "vestigial remnant" of a larger organ (much as the appendix was thought to be a vestigial digestive organ).

Pinealocytes in many non-mammalian vertebrates have a strong resemblance to the photoreceptor cells of the eye. Some evolutionary biologists believe that the vertebrate pineal cells share a common evolutionary ancestor with retinal cells. (proving it was a sensory organ) In some vertebrates, exposure of the pineal to light can directly set off a chain reaction of enzymatic events which regulate circadian rhythms. Some early vertebrate fossil skulls have a pineal foramen (opening). This corroborates with the physiology of the modern "living fossils", the lamprey and the tuatara, and some other vertebrates which have a parietal organ or "third eye" which, in some of them, is photosensitive. The third eye represents evolution’s earlier approach to photoreception. The structures of the third eye in the tuatara are homologous to the cornea, lens and retina, though the latter resembles that of an octopus rather than a vertebrate retina. The asymmetrical whole consists of the "eye" to the left and the pineal sac to the right. "In animals that have lost the parietal eye, including mammals, the pineal sac is retained and condensed into the form of the pineal gland."

The human pineal gland grows in size until about 1-2 years of age, remaining stable thereafter, although its weight increases gradually from puberty onwards. It appears to play a major role in sexual development, hibernation in animals, metabolism, and seasonal breeding.

In humans and other mammals, the light signals necessary to set circadian rhythms are sent from the eye through the retinohypothalamic system to the suprachiasmatic nuclei (SCN) and the pineal.

Thats just some background information on the pineal gland, now whats really interesting is this:

Rick Strassmen stated that DMT is more than likely produced in the pineal gland. Reading the privious information we can conclude that the pineal gland was an organ of sense in early evolutionary animals, and probably still is just inactive. Humans will never be able to see the world the way our predecessors (from an evolutionary standpoint) perceived it . DMT offering a different modality of perception, a different way to view our 3-D world and its link to the "other world(s)" (dark matter, anti-matter, other dimensions, parallel universes, different realms) The pineal gland was a sixth sensory organ but since the way that mammals have evolved we have grown out of the use of our sixth sense, our bond to the unkown, so it takes the chemical DMT to activate it? Basically I believe that we have evolved out of the use of our pineal glands as a sensory organ and now they are just being used for other brain activity purposes.

Something interesting is that Descartes a 17th century philosopher, mathematician, scientist, and writer. Descartes suggested that the pineal gland is "the seat of the soul" for several reasons. First, the soul is unitary, and unlike many areas of the brain the pineal gland appeared to be unitary (though subsequent microscopic inspection has revealed it is formed of two hemispheres). Second, Descartes observed that the pineal gland was located near the ventricles. He believed the animal spirits of the ventricles acted through the nerves to control the body, and that the pineal gland influenced this process. Finally, Descartes incorrectly believed that only humans have pineal glands, just as, in his view, only humans have minds. This led him to the belief that animals cannot feel pain, and Descartes' practice of vivisection (the dissection of live animals) became widely used throughout Europe until the Enlightenment. Cartesian dualism set the agenda for philosophical discussion of the mind-body problem for many years after Descartes' death. The question of how a nonmaterial mind could influence a material body, without invoking supernatural explanations, remains controversial to this day.

We are getting closer and closer to the answer, shouldent be long now till some discovery comes out stating that the soul is linked through the body by DMT and Serotonin. Im assuming that DMT would be like the drivers seat to the material world, and Serotonin would be the drivers seat to the emotional world. Also DMT is found in ALL carbon based living lifeforms on this planet.

When you smoke DMT you hallucinate, when you dont sleep for ~72 hours you start hallucinating, when you dream you basically hallucinate with your eyes closed (DMT is said to be released while you sleep), when you are close to death (DMT is proven to be released in high amounts), you start hallucinating (seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, meeting god, blah blah and so on) so now putting one and one together, if death is a mere hallucination, what is life? Life is just a series of chemical reactions nothing more. Our ability to comprehend life is a gift, if we didnt have this ability we probably would still be cave men all fighting over the cave bitch, but we wouldent be at the same level of consciousness we are now. Sure we would be alive, we would be able to do all the things such as hunt and reproduce, that are basic necessities for all forms of life on this earth, but nothing more than that. No thinking, no wondering why we are here, no questioning our existence, just accepting it. Some people say that animals feel less pain than humans, that they are less alive. Alive in what sense? The sense that they are just a big chemical reaction, sure, but alive in the sense that they understand less? Possibly. Is it that animals cant express there pain as we can (with facial expressions, tears and verbal communication) or is it that they actually dont feel as much pain. I'm not sure, maybe because they never question why they are feeling pain they just accept it (curiosity is human nature). Pain has always been a reality check for me, just as love is. I consider them opposites, but animals cant feel love? or can they, is it just physical attachment, or is it actually the emotion we call love? I believe they can feel love in the sense that it was mentally programmed into them so that after mating the father wouldn't just leave but stick around for a while. If that is the dumbed down version of love that animals feel, then the opposite (pain) is probably also dumbed down. So if this theory is correct then, yes animals do not feel as much pain as us, or if they do its not pain in the we perceive it. I think that animals and humans due to the various levels of consciousness have different ways for perceiving emotions.

Natural selection is the process by which favorable heritable traits become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable heritable traits become less common, due to differential reproduction of genotypes. Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to survive and reproduce than those with less favorable phenotypes. The phenotype's genetic basis, the genotype associated with the favorable phenotype, will increase in frequency over the following generations. Over time, this process may result in adaptations that specialize organisms for particular ecological niches and may eventually result in the emergence of new species. In other words, natural selection is a mechanism by which evolution may take place within a population of organisms.

Natural selection is one hell of an elimination game, and to think that after all these years of cooking it has finally created something interesting, (referring to humans) with a tool that can not only be used to discover and explore this entire planet (and actually be intelligent enough to COMPREHEND what its discovering) but also parts of the universe. It shouldent be to long now before we start messing with something we should be messing with (ahhhem worm holes, black holes, mans un-itched ambition to time travel) and natural selection will end up coming on top again, hopefully in the process of this inevitable epic cosmic fuck-up we just end up destroying ourselves and not the rest of the species on this planet so that Evolution will only have to pick up where it left off, but instead of evolving monkeys, I think its going to pick dolphins this time. The way I see it, we need to evolve faster as a species before we get control of things our minds cant comprehend, we should just stick to exploring for now until we grow up a little bit (aka evolve), but of course no one is going to listen unless something big happens that pushes humanity to the brink of extinction, then and only then will people realize that we have gone to far and need to change. Just my two cents.

I went a little off topic but anyway this was fun writing I hope you enjoy.

 

That was so interesting, thank you. Though the whole way through I kept thinking of the fictional drug Adrenochrome in the movie of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, hahaha.

 

What if the dmt hyperspace is actually real, and all the entities are, like what if they're actually what you see on the other side, because i think dmt gives shows us the closest of what the afterlife actually is because that would make perfect sense if dmt was the actual portal to the other side

 

Yeap thats been my idea for a while know, I believe that dreams you have while your sleeping are actually your mind entering your other body if you will in a parellel universe. Also, because of the nature of parallel universes anything is possible because there an infinite amount things that can occur. I think that while your sleeping your mind actually reaches a state (rem sleep) where its thinking process are not really that involved so we can drift slowly from parallel universe to other parallel universes and get glimpses of what our lives might have been like.

Dreams has always been a fascinating topic. The vivid dreams people remember and talk about are REM dreams. These types of dreams occur almost continuously during each REM period. People also dream while they are in NREM sleep. These dreams are typically less frequent and not easily remembered like REM dreams. When we dream in REM sleep our dreams are like a story and are more visual, vivid, and emotional than NREM. People who are born blind or become blind before the age of 5 usually don't have visual dreams. Instead they have vivid dreams involving other senses. I'm sure everyone has heard the expression "dreams last for a split second". The fact is, that's not true. Researchers have discovered that it takes about as long to dream a dream as it would to experience the same thing in real life.(This shows you that the places we visit in our dreams are dimensions of space, also seeing as to how time is not distorted backs up the belief that we actually visit those parallel universes, with the same amount of dimensions. I think that if our minds would be able to comprehend the higher spacial dimensions then we would be able to visit those also.) Now we will look further into our dreams. Have you ever met someone who say they never have dreams? According to researchers everybody dreams unless they are drinking heavily or taking drugs that suppresses REM sleep. You have the best recall of a dream if you are awaken during the dream. The more time that passes after the dream ends makes it harder to recall. If you wake up ten or more minutes after a dream is over you more than likely won't remember it. When you wake up and you remember a dream, if you don't write it down or mentally rehearse it your dream will fade quickly from your memory. Do you think people would be better off if they remembered more of their dreams? According to the sleep researchers probably not. If your dream memories were as vivid as memories of your real events, you probably would have a difficult time differentiating between events that actually happen and those you dream about. Have you ever had a recurring unpleasant dream? You are not alone. Many people have unpleasant recurring dreams. Themes involving being chased or falling are the two of the most common. Is there anything that can be done to stop recurring dreams? Some people have been taught to use lucid dreaming to get resolutions to their unpleasant recurring dreams. Lucid dreams is a dream where you are aware that you are dreaming and can often influence the content of the dream while it is in progress. Only about ten percent of the population claim to have had this ability at one point or another. It is amazing what goes on in our brains while we are asleep. But the fact is, dreams will forever be a part of our lives. While some things about dreams can not be explained, what we do know is amazing and unless you have lucid dreams, there is no way of controlling what you dream.

DMT just basically makes you dream while you are awake, also in being awake your brain is able to record the events as actual memories and not just dream memories making it easier (easy is to be used lightly) to comprehend whats going on.

 

So basically where you go in your mind when you smoke DMT is the same place that you go when you are dreaming and when you are dead. If you think about it everything has an opposite, light <-> dark, wrong<-> right, good <-> bad, life <-> death,

the realm of the finite and sanity (life) <-> the realm of the infinite and insanity (death/sleep/hallucinations and altered states of mind)

 

I have not had the pleasure of trying DMT yet but what people describe that they see and experience on DMT seems to have many common themes and elements that I've never experienced in any of my dreams. I do, however, agree that there is a possibility that DMT allows us access by some undetermined method to parallel universes or other planes of existance.

 

i didnt read the whole thing yet, but i would like a little clarification.

when was it proven, and by whom and by what methods, that DMT is produced in the pineal gland?

this has, for some time, been the most logical solution to the problem, but i've heard of no proof of this theory.

sources?

 

people have such crackpot theories about dmt

but its totally reasonable, considering the quality of a DMT trip...

whats not reasonable is the way that the junior drug community flails Strassmans stuff across the net... there is barely any conclusive evidence of anything that has come from strassmans work. he found his publishable angle and took it as far as he could - made his name rather valuable in the end and thus succeeded at whatever he was doing.

but hes an OLD FOGEY from the 70s

 

DMT is basically dreaming when your awake? I doubt anyones dreams are even remotely cloose to a dmt trip.

As far as i can tell you enter hyperspace, another dimension of conciousness of interconnected intelligent beings of the universe thats probably been going on for millions of years.

 

Sorry to be a humbug but i fail to see how you "mind" can drift into a parallel universe. It would be the same thing as proving god, you cant prove it or disprove it i guess.

As far as physics are concerned, the only thing that we know about which could theoretically transcend multiple dimensions or universes instantly is the graviton. Your mind/spirit/soul would not be made out of graviton's, if anything, so it would be impossible for some sort of crossing over to occur. Our brains are powerful things, just look at autistic kids and the power they can have sometimes. It is entirely possible that they create the intense experiences that we see while on DMT or your choice of psychedelic.

I do enjoy a good trip, but our minds crossing over into alternate dimensions is simply ridiculous. :hat:

 

i don't really think im ready to do dmt yet, but when i did salvia i most definitely did experience other dimensions and god.

sure this can never be proven, but once you have experienced it faith is all you need.

 

First post on the Hip Forums!

I don't understand what you mean by "death is a mere hallucination" ? Do you mean the act of dying or being dead?

I don't believe the soul can be reached in terms of understanding. It only exists because of energy and chemical reactions in our brains creating thoughts, which then piece together to create a "soul." I see it as the word "soul" is describing thoughts that create emotion, and emotion is just a release of chemicals and thoughts, it is not a realm.

 

the soul is the imagination of the self maybe idk.. Smoke some dimitri and you'll enter the realm dude.

 

My belief is that it is not a realm. It's just a substance that alters the way your thoughts are perceived.

 

The question I have is, are the places we visit while on dmt real or are the just created by our minds? That question cant really be proven, but I think after a certain amount of experimentation you pretty much just "know" the answer to the question.

In response to that, I think its because the amount of dmt released in your brain is far less when you dream, then when you smoke it. Also smoking it requires you to be awake and thus you remember what happened easier.

Yes but gravitons havent even been discovered till recently and while they are probably correct they are not sure how to approach proving that the graviton is real anyway.

What is a Graviton?

1. A quantizied gravitational wave.
2. They travel at the speed of light
3. They have never been experimentally proven to exist.
4. They have been theoretically proven.
5. They permeate all dimensions.

Either way, what if each person contains a "souliton" which can also permeate through all dimensions. No one has really chosen to research this due to the fact that it cant be theoretically proven and the graviton can. What if it can be proven in a different way we just haven't uncovered it yet? What if there actually is a "souliton", who says that the graviton is the only thing to cross dimensions. I find that that to be highly unlikely that the graviton is the only thing to cross dimensions.

Strassman speculated that DMT is made in the pineal gland, largely because the necessary constituents needed to make DMT are found in the pineal gland.

What I believe another interesting theory is, suggested by medical researcher J. C. Callaway.

A new theory proposed is that in addition to being involved in altered states of consciousness, endogenous DMT may be involved in the creation of normal waking states of consciousness. It is proposed that DMT and other endogenous hallucinogens mediate their neurological abilities by acting as neurotransmitters at a sub class of the trace amine receptors; a group of receptors found in the CNS where DMT and other hallucinogens have been shown to have activity. Callaway further proposes that in this way waking consciousness can be thought of as a controlled psychedelic experience. It is when the control of these systems becomes loosened and their behavior no longer correlates with the external world that the altered states arise.

 

I found it funny that you replied at this time, and thanks for not being a complete idiot and having a good discussion. I've sort of changed my mind on the subject. After reading one of the final chapters in Mary Roach's, "Spook" about "NDEs".

These are three quotes that really explained how it could occur, im sure others would find them interesting too:

"I am convinced that consciousness can be experienced independently from the body, during the period of a nonfunctioning brain, with the possibility of non-sensory perception."

"He uses the anallogy of radio or TV transmissions. All these channels, these different electromagnetic fields packed with information, are out there all the time. We can't watch HBO if we're already watching Bravo, but that doesn't mean HBO's broadcast ceases to exsit."

"Could our brain be compared to the TV set, which receives electromagnetic waves and transforms them into image and sound? When the function of the brain is lost, as in clinical death or brain death, memories and consciousness still exist, but the receptivity is lost, the connection is interrupted."

Side note: The Graviton would, as of now,--because this is all theoretical of course-- be the only thing to permeate multiple dimensions mostly because:

1) It's massless. Only Gauge bosons have the possibility of "crossing over" into other dimensions, and if it were to be discovered: it would be categorized in with the others.

2) We can scientifically calculate that some of Gravity's force is missing from our dimension.

Until the LHC comes online, there is really no point in discussing fundamental particles right now because i assume some really crazy stuff will be discovered this year. For all we know, we may be living in a Holographic Universe that is actually 2 dimensional

 

I agree with that but what I was getting at is that, what if this "souliton" is not something we can see as easily as "gravity", and the reason we cant is because it is right in front of our noses. What if this is another force, just as the force of gravity is acting upon us every day, what if there is a force of life acting on us. What I mean by this force of life is choice, being conscious and alive is giving you the power to go where you want to go based on what you want to do (aka go left or right down a sidewalk) is that being alive and conscious we have the power to chose. If lets say the force of gravity was acting on us and we were an unconscious object such as a rock then we wouldn't really have a choice on where to go the force of gravity would guide us. Planets orbiting stars do not have the power of choice, they cannot choose where they want to go, they just revolve. What if there is another force much like gravity except instead of forcing you to do something (such as gravity keeping things in orbit etc.) it is forcing you to make choices. Basically if you think about it all life comes down to is a long series of choices, you can only make the wrong choice so many times before your life is ended.

Anyway im trying to describe that it could be very feasible that the thing that makes us alive and able to understand we are alive (consciousness) is a particle much like the graviton, except with obvious differences.

 

What if the way your thoughts are perceived is literally visiting another realm with your mind. Think about it, your body can do a ton of things your mind cant do and vis versa. What if one of the things our mind can do is leave the body and visit around other realms/dimensions/universes whatever you want (hence the reason peoples bodies just kind of stop responding when they smoke high amounts of dmt, your mind just kind of leaves).

 

some can catch the train by simply walking in front of it.. And others need to catch the train by boarding it. There are some that can anywhere without the train.. Its only matter. But it really doesn't matter at all.. depends on the way you look at it..

 

Yes but while it is "just matter" and our bodies are "just chemical reactions" what is life, just a byproduct of a random assembly of atoms? Were we put here for a reason or are we just some cosmic mistake? hmmmm I guess no one will ever know, atleast not in our lifetimes.