American Cultural Imperialism

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by Peace-Phoenix, Oct 27, 2004.

  1. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    Call it MacDonaldisation if you'd like....
     
  2. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    I'll call it anti americanism.


    Look at any highly globalized place. Hong Kong, New york, etc, you will find PLENTY of restaurants from ALL over the world. New York has more than its share of mcdonalds, but it also has restaurants from virtually every cuisine in the world.
     
  3. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    I hardly think the state of people's culinary choices is at the heart of the matter. What I'm talking about when I say cultural imperialism, or MacDonaldisation, is about American cultural hegemony, and how western, particularly American values, are forcibly and also subtly exported at the expense of other global cultures....
     
  4. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    Also, if you're going to call it anti-Americanism, then you'll have to define your terms. America is a state, not an ideology (though it has become one)
     
  5. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    examples?
     
  6. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    The dominance of transnational corporations promoting American products, imagery and ideas. I doubt there are many countries where you can't buy a Bart Simpson toy anymore. The dominance of massive American global media networks, promoting western values. This is particularly dangerous where these values are portrayed as though they were superior, and may come into conflict with indigenous culture. The displacement and assimilation of populations to the American way of life - it began with the Native Americans, it hasn't ended. This is not to say that all aspects of American ideology are wrong, simply that they should not be pushed upon people and risk the destruction of their own, diverse cultures....
     
  7. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    Mcdonalds isnt destroying local cusines, it is doing nothing of the such. People are rejecting it because they see it as inferior, like many american products. The hate is more geared as a rejection of America, than as a direct response to the food. If the food sucks, people wont go there, thats it. Mcdonalds has np opening up almost anywhere in the world. People who say the world is becoming one great big mcdonalds do not take the time to see that our cities have become more diverse than ever(atleast american cities).
     
  8. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    I think there's a bit of a hang-up over McDonalds here. McDonaldisation is simply a sociological term that refers to the wider forces of transnational cultural imperialism by American corporations....
     
  9. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    So whats your problem with this? You can also point to disney using european/middle eastern content in its movies.


    America is not forcing any values on anyone. No one is forcing you to wear your jeans or watch our movies. Have you ever thought that people LIKE our stuff? Maybe thats the real problem. They are more drawn to our stuff than their own.

    What exactly is the american way of life? And how exactly are we destroying cultures? Examples, examples.
     
  10. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    Point to the industries that we are destroying cultures with then. I would think if it took the titel of Mcdonaldization, that mcdonalds would be a good example to use. I'm sorry.
     
  11. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    It's far more subtle than force alone. Forceful imperialism is quite evident, from the Bay of Pigs to Baghdad. Cultural imperialism is seditious, insideous. Most people in the world are exposed to American ideas and values through the institutions I've highlighted, simply because America is the dominant power in the world. It was the same in the British colonies when Britain was the major power (though in different ways) How much culture are you exposed to from the Trobriand Islands? No, not everyone is forced to accept it, but it's very hard to resist when it's taking over markets, regulating business, the media, political decisions etc. We are seeing a rejection of this cultural imperialism. In a radical way the anti-capitalist movement is making a stand against it. In a rather more destructive, malevolent and reactionary way, so too are the Islamic fundamentalists....
     
  12. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    WHOA, bay of pigs and iraq are now about cultural imperialism!?

    What exactly are american ideas and values?

    Trobriand? Eh, i'm exposed to zero culture from there(that i know of). Somehow we've destroyed this place or are destroying it though?

    What markets exactly are we taking over? Take hollywood for example, one of our biggest exports. Many nations(such as france) have put a quota on the number of hollywood films allowed in the country and high taxes are put on them. You think this is right? How about making movies that people want to watch instead of trying to block american films?

    How about english? Cultural imperialism through that? Since America has become a world power, english has swept through the world at a scary rate, and continues to be come more common everyday. Yet, there is no shortage of people learning arabic, chinese, russian, etc etc.

    and yeah, many anti globalists arent malevolent and destructive, right. "LOOK MCDONALDS, FIREBOMB IT!"

    edit: Cultural exceptionalism destroys cultures. Cultures that are open and allowed to adapt thrive and survive. Take the ancient example of sparta and athens for example.
     
  13. Alomiakoda

    Alomiakoda Boniface McSporran

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    ARGH!

    Sal! Stop with the dots :p
     
  14. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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  15. Alomiakoda

    Alomiakoda Boniface McSporran

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    Seriously...

    You finish every post with dots...

    It starts to get annoying after a while...

    Just finish the fucking idea...

    sorry :p It just makes everything really hard to read cos you leave everything with an unfinished thought and half the time I don't know what you're implying
     
  16. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    No, Bay of Pigs and Iraq I used as examples of forceful militaristic imperialism, as opposed to cultural imperialism.

    You've not done anything to the tribal peoples on the Trobriand islands as far as I'm aware, it's simply an example of how wealth and power amongst globally dominant nations can lead to cultural imperialism.

    American ideas and values, eg. the free market economy, the nuclear family, the protestant work ethic, neo-liberalism, Christianity, mass-media, limited representative democracy, shitty mass-marketed fast food (an example of an offence to culture here would be India and the beef fat used to fry chips - very controversial) even the English language! These are just a few examples, I'm sure you can think of many more, simply the way of life that you take for granted.

    Market imperialism, oil would be a good example. If America cannot exert enough influence on driving oil prices down and increasing supply, it will get pretty damn nasty. Iraq being a case in point, also the CIA backed coup against Chavez in Venesuala, after he was democratically elected and chose to move to regulate their oil industry. Sweatshop labour is another example, though I'll admit America is not the only country guilty of this. The list goes on.

    I don't know what point you're trying to make about the English language, you seem to be accepting that most cultures have taken to adopting English.

    I don't see anti-capitalist demonstrators as malevolent, I see them as fighting against a terrible oppression. I think you've over stereotyped with your characterisation of them. I'm sure some people in the movement wouldn't mind putting a brick through the windows of McDonalds, but it doesn't achieve much in the long run or the short run, just a venting of anger. Most people don't really use those forms of direct action. Direct action should be targeted, non-violent, and with an obvious political objective to achieve.

    Interesting argument with cultural exceptionalism, and yes, cultures should be open to an exchange of ideas. But an equal exchange! There is nothing equal about the dominance of western values and the means by which they are spread....
     
  17. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    I've always done it. It's not that my arguments themselves are unfinished as far as I'm making them, merely symbolism that ideas are always in constant evolution....

    PS. Just read them as a full stop.
     
  18. riptiderevolucion

    riptiderevolucion Member

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    If people didn't buy things from places such as McDonald's, they wouldn't be opening all over the world. If people didn't think The Simpson's are funny, they wouldn't watch it.

    Now, the way our megacorporations convince our government to use our military to boost business, THAT'S alarming, to say the least. But so-called American Cultural Imperialism is a bunch of crap. We might invade countries to control their oil, but we don't put a gun to somebody's head and tell them to watch Baywatch and drink Coke.
     
  19. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    Thats a pretty myopic view of the way products are marketed. Take a parallel example. Why is America a two party state? Just look at the ammounts of money the Republicans and Democrats pump into fancy advertising campaigns, and running down their competitors. Do you really think any third party candidate can compete with their millions, even if people agree with their policies? I'm not saying supply and demand is irrelevant, but you can't discount the predominance of western values due to the wealth and power of western nations, America in particular. Have you ever tried Inca Kola? It's a Peruvian soft drink, and is actually quite nice. Do you really think that Coke simply tastes nicer? Or might it have something to do with the fact that it simply can't compete in a market dominanted by western transnationals....
     
  20. riptiderevolucion

    riptiderevolucion Member

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    I think a lot of people around the world think American products are "cool" and that's why they buy them. I think that for every person who complains about America, there are a thousand who are happily choosing to consume our goods.

    If Inca Kola can't make a profit in Peru then either the product sucks or their business sucks. It's that simple. When people complain about Walmart knocking out local businesses, I use the same argument. As someone who grew up with a family-owned business and watched Walmart come into town and lay waste to many local businesses, but not ours, I learned a good lesson in how business works. Small-scale, locally owned businesses can compete against megacorps. You just have to adapt and offer something the big guys don't. For some reason, though, people around the world love to shop at crappy, raggedy-ass, slickly marketed businesses. To be honest, I think the general populace is dumb and has fucked-up tastes and American businesses are good at taking advantage of that.

    People might hate how the American government behaves, but it seems that they love our products (music, movies, fast food, etc.). When someone complains about Americanization, what they're really complaining about are all the dumbasses buying into the idiocy.
     
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