It is believed that the Bible was written by those whom God spoke to and I do not dispute this. The problem does not arise in the writings of the Bible for it is my opinion that what is there is God's Truth. The problem began when it was decided what would be included in the Bible. In about 325 AD the Emporer Constantine and a group of leaders of various early christian sects, each of whom had claim to scripture old and new, and comprised what is the basis for the Bible, and they themselves became the foundation of the Catholic Church. Constantine and this group of early Christian leaders were not Biblical contributors, were more interested in leading then serving (contrary to the teachings of Jesus) and therefore rejected material contrary to their agenda. The Gospel of Thomas for example, which was found amoungst the dead sea schrolls in 1945. In the core of that Gospel Jesus states that "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you and around you" which is at the core of Gnosticisim. The Gnostic contribution of scripture was flatly rejected by Constantine and his council and 1600 years later when this Gospel resurfaced, the Catholic church declared it as heresy. Other Christian denominations distance themselves from the Catholic Church, but in truth, they only say they do. Like the Catholic church, all mainstream denominations of Christianity expect you to blindly accept THEIR interpretation and THEIR version of the Bible thereby maintaining their belief that THEY are the authority between you and God. I challenge all Christians out there to do this: DO NOT blindly accept what your Ministers and leaders tell you what to do. QUESTION it. Jesus did not accept the authorities of his time and if you aspire to be like him then neither should you. Remember: Beware of the Wolf in sheep's clothing
Okay. I will return to this point. Check your history. Constatine (c. 277-337). Synod of Hippo where the canon was officially given the okay took place in AD 393. Hell, the Synod of Laodicea (c. 363) was one of the first synods to set out to approve what books should be read in churches. The proto-orthodox canon (as it is known) was in development long before Constatine was even born (take a look at Ireneaus' supposed canon based on what he quotes in his works--he uses 21 of the now 27 books of the NT). mmm, not so much. If the Bible declares God' Truth, then in this statement you seem to imply that it doesn't because it was compiled by others for power. Why then would the Bible declare God's truth? Shouldn't it not have Luke's Gospel which many see either as a Gospel for the poor, or a Gospel against the rich (i.e. to make the feel guilty about being rich and change their ways). Thomas was only found in Egypt, not in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Nag Hammadi is probably the more famous discovery. You realize that Jesus says a similar thing in a canonical gospel as well. Jesus not accepting the authority is a stupid example. Jesus didn't accept what they said cause he was God incarnate! Jesus fought against injustice and impediments to worship, not a recognized canon. Quit looking in the mirror when you say that.
Thank you Urk-Cdn for your response. I admit my recall of history may be somewhat distorted and will accept the validity of yours over mine. However I do not claim the Bible holds false truths and apologize if what I wrote implies that. What I believe is that the Bible is incomplete do to the decision to omit certain books from the Bible. What I believe is that parts of God's Truth were intentionally held back for the purpose of making a few the authority on God for the many. Not unlike the Pharisees really. This is what Jesus opposed. The idea of a mortal authority (a handful of schollars and so called experts) determining what God's Laws are, how they should be enforced and interpreted, and even and which ones should be included in God's Book is absolutlely preposterous! You strike me as quite intelligent Urk-Cdn. Can you not see the folly? A handful of men with absolute power to dictate God's Word to the masses? What is that saying about absolute power? Anyways, I took your advise and looked in the mirror. I noticed my teeth were large and yellow. Thanks!
God spoke to me and said you're both full of crap (although the history lesson was pretty good). Now, why don't you believe god spoke to me? Better question is why do you believe god spoke to anyone? Anyone claiming God spoke to them in this day and age is labeled a nut. Why do you allow special pleading for ancient Jewish Zombies? Why does an all powerful god, with the ability to speak to humans (Adam, Eve, Moses, Noah, etc....) not speak to us directly instead of relying on men to write his words down? Is he too busy? Doing What? He already created everything so there can't be THAT much to do that he can't say to me, Hey Darts, I;m here, you can believe I exists now. Any attempt to say that this would negate my free will, will be met with an argument from absurdity. God spoke to other people and their free will wasn't affected, to prove that statement all I have to do is show how people who spoke to god, sinned anyway, namely Cain committed murder. This all powerful god is not very efficient and infact this would imply that he is far from perfect. Thus, no reason to believe this god exists as described.
See, but some of the books eventually rejected by the various councils are not compatible with the books that are accepted. Example: Matthew and Luke stress Jesus' divine Sonship and humanity. Other Gospels stress that Jesus only appeared to be human, how can the two coincide? I understand why some might see it as folly, but I do not think it is. If every book written about Jesus was considered Truth, then there would be no truth what-so-ever (by the fact that they all contradict). Some even argue that the NT means nothing because it can be used hermenutically to say anything. The Pharisees did not hold back truth, they stressed adherence to the law in a very strict sense (for example the rebuke of Jesus about saving your ox on the Sabbath. The Pharisees say this is a sin, but would do it themselves). The Essenes were even more hardcore. I looked in the mirror too. Mine were nice and white j/k.
Ever hear of the priesthood of the believers? A quote from the Baptist Faith and Message (1960 I believe) stated that each of us has the same access to God as a preacher, priest, deacon, teacher etc. That is the doctrine I cling to when I am in church. Of course, a couple of years ago, the So. Baptist Convention changed the wording to "priesthood of the believers" which weakens the concept. Call me old fashioned - I'm believe in the former - we all have the ability to hear God speak and don't need a preacher to interpret for us. As time goes on it seems corporate worship moves farther and farther away from Christ. Peace and Love - Dudley
I also believe that the Bible is the word of God and I also believe that most of the trouble in Christianity began at about the time of Constantine but then we begin to differ. I believe what is in the Bible is more in God’s hands than man’s. So to me the problem is more with the decisions they made about doctrines, than the Bible. To me the decisions about the trinity, hellfire and immortality of the soul etc. that take a giant left hand turn away from what the Bible says is the real problem that took place at the time of Constantine.
i dont think the bible is the end all say all of faith. I dont think the label Christian is either. Please see my post in this subforum. I have numerous problems with the bible and the Christian faith. That said I dont believe the end result of the belief is wrong, but it can be achieved in other ways. Like I said, see my other post. Thanks
if nothing else can be said of humans surely our egotism surpasses awe. that we barely evolved primates milling around on an inconsequential dirt ball spinning in space came by the gall to consider our infantile myths to be the be all and end all of a phenom so mind boggling vast as to encompass mulitple universes is simply ... astounding (and rather embarrassing). humility is not a human forte'. view some Hubble telescope pics for a good reality check, keeping in mind that those pics represent an infinitesimal fraction of what is out there in this one universe. then come back here and convince me that some primitive Bronze Age goat herders had their ear to "God's" lips.
Perhaps but remember, in God's eyes, mankind is still only a couple of steps away from those goat herders, although they where sheep herders and God probably thinks even those steps were in the wrong direction.
Disagree. By choosing the gospels that focused on salvation only through the physical Jesus the Catholic Church, through the bishop, could act as God's representative on earth while Jesus was gone. One God in heaven, One bishop on earth.
