Just why in hell does Omar Khadr elicit such sympathy on this thread. What has he done to earn all of the concern over his treatment? Is he up for a Nobel peace prize? Doesent anybody know someone who is under the thumb of Division of Youth and Child Services or some other such oppresive bureracy right here at home. Somebody who is not threatening Westerners or associating with crackpots who hold warped ideas. Someone who deserves our sympathy. Wouldn't our sympathy be better directed against marijuanna detainees reight at home, subjected to abuse in prisons in North America ? Why is the presumption of guilt against our prior sex offenders seemingly alright while we shower concern on the likes of Khadr. Is Khadr less threatening than someone convicted of DWI ? Why do I want to commit my tax dollars to hire him an attorney and give him a trial in America? I trust the uniformed servicemen who represents that Khadar is a killer. Let Canada claim him if they are so inclined then.
I'll bet the ranch that detainees at Guantanmo are better fed than residents in the rest of Cuba. I'll bet that they have less "torture" than someone held in an American prison or any prison for that matter. They may even have less "torture" than the average US Marine recruit who is undergoing basic training at Camp LeJune, SC.
No, that's not right either. The supreme court has ruled that Common Article III of the Geneva Conventions applies, and the Department of Defense said they would do so. My point is that it enemy combatant or POW, they are not common criminals and they are not "local resistance to the occupation".
My point is, POW's eventually get to go home. If it were left up to you, these people would be incarcerated for the rest of their lives, guilty or not. Timothy McVeigh got a trial, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef got a trial, heck even Jeffrey Dahmer got a trial. Our system of justice seems to work, in spite of what you think. If these people are so bad and evil, the governemnt should have no problem proving thier guilt.
POWs get to go home when the war is over. And when is that exactly? I never said I wanted these people incarcerated forever, and the majority of them have already been released, so that's not what Bush wanted either. Some of them are not being let go because there's nowhere to send them. People like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed should never be let go.
Some only get their remains sent home. And these guys will go home too, eventually... Any idea what the length of an average POW incarceration is ? Not while the buildings were still burning. Like Hip said, POW's aren't released while the conflict is on going. Atleast they're fed well,
This "enemy combatant" bullshit is nothing new with the U.S. government. Geronimo was held as an enemy combatant from the time of his capture in 1886 until his death in 1909. Most of the time spent in Ft. Sill Oklahoma. The treatment of these people nowadays was perfected 150 years ago by the threatment of the native americans by the U.S. Government. For that matter, one of the defenses used in the trials of Japanese officers after the war in the Pacific and German officers at Neurimberg was that their treatment of prisoners was in no material way different than treatment of native americans by the U.S. Army decades before. Of course we hung the Japanese and the Germans...........but it doesn't change the facts that they were right.
The term enemy combatant has always bothered me. If they were/are an ememy accosted at a time of war then why doesn't the label POW fit? What would the minutement have been labeled by the British Empire? And we now have this broad war on terrorism, and those accused of being terrorists, changed almost daily under Bush. The members of the IRA were they held by the British as enemy combatants?
We became responsible when we detained these people. You may not want to commit your tax dollars, but our government committed them when they plucked these people from their homes.
Even the most gung-ho Bushie can't deny that Gitmo violates every principle this country stands for, and every freedom my father fought in WWII to protect. We are not supposed to be a Stalinist society, where we can throw people who make us nervous into a prison and keep them there for as long as we want: no trial, no defense attorneys, torturing them to make them "talk", our whole humanity flushed down a reeking toilet. You want to know who's to blame for the problem of finding places to put the Gitmo prisoners? Bush, that's who. If he had not permitted that festering cesspool to get started in the first place we would not be in this mess. These men should have been given a trial a long time ago (and not a Stalinist show trial), and justly adjudicated. If they had been we wouldn't be looking at this situation today. As with the economy, our reputation with the world, and everything else, Obama is going to have to clean up Bush's shit. We have no one to blame for this debacle except for the president who was not elected. Twice. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin
Never said that. Only said we created this one. And we shouldn't be proud of it. Aren't we supposed to be spreading a better form of government and society?
Hey depoisoned, I don't know about the torture. I don't like the idea. But lets say the American soldiers raided a house in Iraq and found a bunch of plans to ship Uranium to the USA and blow up a dirty nuclear bomb during a big event or in a crowded downtown area? What then? They need to use whatever methods necessary to find that Uranium and prevent another 9/11 style attack. I will personally go over there and pull out his fingernails, play the loud music all night long for the sleep depravation and pour the water on his face for the waterboarding. Why because I want to keep you and your family safe. Well, how's that? Have I publicly advocated torture as effective? Do I condone the crap that went down at Abu Ghraib? No. Should Khadr be tortured? No, because he probably doesn't know anything. Only those that have information that could put Americans or their allies at risk should be subjected to torture. Now, how is that determined? But there should be some upper level officer who's job it is to make these decisions, then be personally accountable, and he should be very senior and answer directly to the president. Should torture be a form of punishment? DEFINITELY NOT!! Now, the mass executions; most of these guys need to be shot on the battlefield, because they will come back again and again for as long as they are able. They believe that it is their religious obligation to kill us. They don't care about dieing, remember? So if they are killed only fed bacon and pork, or are buried with the carcasses with pigs, they will realize that after death they won't get to heaven. Is my head properly fucked enough for you there, buddy??:cheers2:
Freedom is for everyone, that is why we went to Afghanistan and Iraq. To free them from oppression (and I will admit that oil had something to do with it, we haven't liberated Sudan. But we have liberated other places with no oil.) But Freedom is not for the terrorists, they don't get any rights. Noone needs to be exploited or raped in a true free society. But that will never happen.
My hatred is due to the fact that I am an American and I love my country. Don't you love our country?? What is wrong with you?? OK, wow, try to think here. I only said McVeigh and the Unibomber as examples, because they are Americans. We reserve the rights of the American way for these assholes because they are Americans. These rights also extend to OJ Simpson, Victor Gerena (Who is on the FBI's most wanted list and is a Latin from Connecticut.) and the guy who sprayed a black neighborhood of Miami, Liberty City, with an AK-47. Our constitutional rights do NOT extend to people from other countries. Instead of saying Jordan and Iran, I admit I could have done a better job at picking countries where a terrorist could have come from, like Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. You have a point there.The government of Jordan did nothing to us, I said people from Jordan, and there are a lot of terrorists coming out of Jordan, but not as many as those other three. If you seriously have to ask what Iraq and Iran have done to us then you are very much wrapped up in your own little life and ignorant about the world outside America (or wherever it is you live.) I feel sorry for you.
Well, mate, we are at war with these people. They already have kidnapped Americans and held them without any explanation. We also held Nazi prisoners of war back in WWII. Is Gitmo perfect and should it continue as is? No, it definitely needs to be fixed. I went into a big thing above in a reply to someone else and don't want to rehash.
Who are "these people". Terrorists? Arabs? Muslims? Who are you fighting, Fawkes? BTW, speaking as a military veteran your extremist nationalism makes be want to puke all over my keyboard. Once again, you have no clue as to who attacked the US in 2001 or why. But I'm still interested to hear your answers, only so I can laugh at you.
