to all my fellow feminists out there, how do you deal with women who are happy to follow the "roles" of men and women, or who say that they agree that they are not equal to men ect. what do you say? how can you help them out of their mind set that is so damaging to women? I am not one for converting people or changing peoples minds because I think my way is right, I'm talking about debates or just general conversation. Thank you . Blessings xxx
you can't talk them out of it. there's no point. if they're content, leave them be. work for the rights of women who wish for them, and for those who will need them in the future. you can lead a horse to water, and all that. if their lifestyle is working for them and their families, they have the right to pursue it. no matter how aggravating they may be from time to time with their fawning over jerks who don't deserve their loyalty. mind you, i have a pretty traditional lifestyle with my husband. most of these guys that these women are fawning over are outright abhorrent to me and i wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire. they're just rude and mean. however, my husband earned my complete loyalty and devotion. but i consider him to be pretty rare, a king among men. i'd follow him anywhere. he deserves it.
I think women's rights is all about women being able to lead any life they choose, and I support all healthy lifestyles. I am a pretty independent person, but I swoon at the thought of being a stay at home mommy and a milf-y housewife. Still, I am going to go to school, have a mind of my own, and would never put my self or my children in a position where they were co-dependent.
i think that feminism got way out of hand, i have the same opinion of people who turn to the Goddess to the exclusion of the God. thats just the same problem in reverse! its great to have the ability and the option to be independent, to be a career person, but there is no balance. a man who is proud of his penis can be ridiculed, called a chauvinist pig, but its the same thing as feminism. chauvinism: 1: excessive or blind patriotism 2: undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged 3: an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex ; also : behavior expressive of such an attitude I don't think its right for any woman to feel inferior to a man, but i also don't think any woman should develop a superiority complex over men. its unbalanced, and thats (IMO) one of the biggest problems on this planet. everyone wants to be better than someone else. we developed differently (men and women) to be able to grow bigger brained offspring. when you're 8 months pregnant with swollen ankles, you are not going hunting. just because the need to hunt isn't there doesn't mean we can avoid the reason we are built the way we are. the 'roles' of men and women however outdated, are the same roles we'd fit into if society collapsed. i don't buy into the 30's-50's view, but i also don't think that fighting to be 'equal' in an unbalanced world means anything. femininsm is just a chauvanistic as masculinism, but its more socially acceptable, i certainly don't agree with that. i am a stay at home mom, my husband pays the bills, and i am ok with that. life is easier on him if hes 'being the man' as he was raised to be. life is easier on me 'being the woman' i was born to be. i knew i wanted to be a mom when i was a five year old kid, and i have the darling husband who will support me while i live my dream. i am not stuck in any role, i am happy, and i wanted this. he asks me if i would rather go back to work, and the answer is no. why would i want to double my job? i would burn outt in record time if i went back to work, only to come home to sub par dinner, or no dinner at all, a pile of clean but unfolded laundry and a myriad of other issues that only i can do right, therefore they'd wait until i got home. no thanks. my hubby is capable, but he is unlearned in the way of homemaking, and i had my mom to teach me how to clean, and my dad to teach me how to cook. i am actually intereted in the lost art of homemaking. spinning, weaving, canning, butter churning, they are intriguing. and they are disgustingly absent from mainstream life today. argh. my rant has run out of fuel. im sure you understand my feelings by now. my mom always said " opinions are like assholes; everyone has one and they all stink."
OP--Are you suggesting that if someone is "happy" to follow the traditional gender roles of men and women, they should stop doing so, even if it makes them unhappy, all in the name of some vague, ever-evolving "movement"? How is it any more fair to ask women to be breadwinners no matter what makes them happy, than it would be to ask women to stay home no matter what makes them happy? Isn't feminism supposed to be about choice? Choosing to do what makes you happy and what you feel is best for your family? I would love to be a stay at home mom one day. Not because I'm lazy or uneducated, or because I don't think I have a choice, but because I've had outside jobs before and they never leave me satisfied. Nurturing a child is much more rewarding for me than being financially independent of my spouse just to prove some abstract point. If these women are happy, as you say, then what exactly is the problem?
well, i think she's specifically referring to the sickening sycophantic drones who post at men are better than women dot com. i believe the feminism movement is about choice and rights. yes, i do believe that some ugly reverse inequalities have come to light and need to be improved upon. these things take time. but i've butted heads against some of these "ladies," who wish to REVERSE women's rights instead of correcting unfairness.
I hope not. I do have to thank Mother's Love for the Goddess bit. I'm a Pagan too, but partially because I grew up Christian and partially because I have problems getting close to females I still pray mostly to the Lord. I collect every book on masculine Paganism that I can, because I may have a Pagan son one day. I don't understand why men get excluded or dominated from Pagan worship so often. That's why I left Christianity. I wonder if I can even be called a feminist anymore. If so, I'm more first-wave: the nineteenth century ladies who wanted simple financial and mental independence, the choice of career or housewifery, and RESPECT for the position of wife and mother. I have great respect for housewives, as long as they actually work as if it were a real job. I have informed my husband that while I intend to be a full-time homeschooling mother when we breed, I would also like to work at a job for two or three days a week just to support my own hobbies. He thanked me, because his last girlfriend wanted him to drop out of school and support her as a housewife when all she ever does is play video games. If I see one more "housewife" sitting in front of the television all day while the housework never gets done, I'm going to scream. However, until I have the responsibilities of motherhood I will have a full-time job. Why not? We keep our finances separate, and we've arranged unofficial shares of the household expenses. We each have our own savings as well as a joint savings account, and we share money freely between each other as needed. Having a little extra cash to augment that just makes life easier, and living at home all of the time with nothing to do BUT housework would be boring as hell.
Why would you want to change a "sexy woman"? Being a feminist, to me, means that a woman has the right to portray whatever image it is she wishes. If a female wants to be a sex slave, then by God let her. If she wants to be a teacher, a hippie, a firefighter, a singer, actress.... just because she wants to look a certain way, doesn't make her less of a woman. I support every woman, no matter what "role" image she portrays. On the other hand, when a woman is claiming to be "less than a man", at that point I have to step in and let her know that she needs to educate herself on women's lib and what it means to be "equal" with men. Many women do get stuck in the theory they are less than equivalent. Some women aren't exposed to a feminist outlook until after they have been brainwashed by whom ever. So, at that point I would more than likely pass on a few books and websites, as well as be a lady that she can talk to that does have some experience and knowledge in the situation.
I have a serious problem with these types of women. I used to belong to a "women's board" where 99% of the women had never had a creative or independent thought in their lives. Every time I tried to post something more intelligent than "What kind of mascara do you use?" I got absolutely nowhere. Trying to engage these domesticated women in feminist conversation is all but useless. They'll either change the subject to pie or curtains, or tell you how stupid you are for being independent. I have found that the only way to have a hope of getting through to them is to lead by example. When some woman tells me that she lets her husband make all the decisions, I point out that my husband and I share the decision-making duties, and I also let her know that I am perfectly capable of respecting his opinion even if I don't agree with it. Women who are submissive tend to take an "all or nothing" approach to feminism: to them women are either "man-hating bitches" or "good wives". I try to let them know that there's a comfortable middle ground they can find their way to.
gawd, i know about that whole "man-hating-bitches" or "good woman" bullshit. i get hell for that all the time simply because my respect and love for my husband doesn't automatically encompass all humans with penises.
This is such a good way of putting it! The worst offenders are those who claim to be feminists, yet every word out of their mouths is in defense of men and against women. They blame women for being raped or beaten (they asked for it), for standing up for their rights (we're man-hating bitches if we do that), or for wanting to be independent (we want to dominate and enslave men). It galls me when women who take the male side on every issue consider themselves feminists. Being a Barbie isn't feminist, even if you don't wear a bra while doing it.
I've never identified myself as a feminist. But when I moved to the south I had a lot of trouble finding a church (eventually gave up) because everyone that I went to told me that I was beneath a man. I was not worthy to lead a church if I so wanted. My job was to obey my husband, make life easier for him and raise my children to believe the same. That does not work for me. Feminist or not, I'm just as good as any man out there.
Although I grew up southern baptist, which as a rule consider women as especially sinfull, my church was pretty liberal. We had a female assistant Pastor. So it was a shock to me to find that these churchs still existed.
I have actually been called a "good woman" once. The old farmers of the town come and drink coffee at the hotel I work at every morning. I adore them. They're completely redneck-insane, but in old people it comes out as lovable senility. Oh, that last election was a circus with these guys. A lot of them came close to death on November 5th, but I digress. They've caught me knitting, crocheting, and sewing on various occasions. I had to have a portable craft to do on my shift to protect against boredom. One morning, my husband brought me food at about five in the morning. He had made pasta, and I love pasta, and it was SOOooooo freshly yummy. One of the ringleaders actually walked over, introduced himself, and shook my husband's hand in congratulations for getting me. Apparently, no female under the age of 25 has been caught doing needlework in this city since these old men were children. They spoke for a time while I was working, then I got congratulated later on my winning of my husband. He's a rare one too for his age (26): he actually has a job and is responsible with resources. It was really really weird, and we decided against telling them that (a) I can neither cook nor clean and (b) He embroiders.
haha. That sounds like the folks in my town. They act like because I'm not spending my life looking for my future husband that there is something wrong with me. Granted, most girls out here are married as soon as highschool ends. I'm an old spinster in these parts lol. At my old church we had a young couple start attending our church, but decided one day that is was not for them. When the pastor asked them why, they said that it did not follow the word (female asst. Pastor), then the young woman went on to say that she was ashamed to be a woman. Ashamed the she was so weak (willed and physically), and that she has to battle every day to not lead her husband into satan's hands because she had such a sinful nature. I was only about 15 when I heard what this woman said, and I was in shock. My Pastor was in tears for her. I could not believe that such a young couple could still be stuck in such wrong ways.
