Iraq Pullout

No, I haven't. But I have done enough research to reach at least somewhat of an informed conclusion.

What experts? Who?? The idiots on CNN?

Presidential candidates always claim to "heavily support" a lot of things. I am sure anyone would if it meant bettering their chance of getting them into the White House.

And how is this going to end the situation in Iraq anytime soon?

Of course not. But the money is in the oil. The elites don't care about "alternative energy" sources because there is little profit in it for them. It's a bipartisan matter, too. Don't be totally ignorant and act like it's only a Republican matter.

The changover will not happen soon enough to bring about a shift in our current foreign policy. It's not like this is going to happen overnight, if it happens at all.

Is that line quoted from Kerry's website or something? It sounds very scripted and overtly vague.

Right. And pigs can fly.

Um, no.... I am pretty sure I am more of an "expert" than you are, or will be anytime soon. I have done fairly extensive research on this topic. Maybe you have, too. But based on what I have read coming from you, I highly doubt it. I hear the same half-baked nonsense coming from you that I hear coming directly from the media and the Kerry campaign. Basically, a whole lot of BS.

 

You're equally a delusional moron if you think that a President Kerry will bring about any major change to the quagmire which is Iraq.

 

Well spoken, Rat.

 

What in the hell are you on dude? Nice rant, but take a deep breath....

There are pictures of the soldiers in the earlier months, you can select which months to view, moron. Hope you feel good knowing more faces will be added when dumbasses like you allow Bush* to dictate our nation for 4 more yrs. and probably 4 more wars!!
Kerry will not pull out troops right away, but your useless 3rd party candidates won't get elected! Hello! He will be able to get our troops home sooner and if the Iraq situation continues to deteriorate, he will have the sense and compassion to bring them home, as his actions following Vietnam suggest.

You see, some of you selfish fools care only about our troops, you'd pull out immediately and not concern yourself with the civil war that would break out in Iraq, fuck that. I'm interested in the actions that would save the most human lives, not just U.S. military. I'm not blinded by patriotism like Pressed Rat for example who only wants what's in the U.S.'s best interest.

Also I don't think it is any worse for a woman to die than a man. Don't be so old-fashioned in your thinking.
Some wars are necessary you freak. You think you'd be free today if it weren't for certain wars?! I'm glad slackers like yourself aren't defending us. Stop being so disrespectful. And don't try to debate those that have a mental advantage over you.

 

He won't be alone, he will have plenty of help.

 

stop being an echo, we know pressed rat is your hero.....

 

Well, gee, so have I.

I have no idea what is shown on CNN, I get my info off the web and from NPR. NPR has had tons of people on who have been in Iraq, tons. They all seem to have the same opinion and are getting the same info from Iraqis-they want us to reconstruct. They want electricity, they want water, etc. They appreciate the reconstruction efforts of the soldiers, but they want to know we won't be there forever.
Insurgents are destroying what our troops reconstruct. This is why we need to get help and control the insurgents.

Bush* would sooner go to war than seek alternatives to oil. Under Kerry we can rest assured there will be no new wars. If you guys really want Bush* in the White House, I hope you will enlist and help absorb bullets in the likely wars that will result.

Are you kidding? The Bush* big oil elites maybe. There is much potential profit in alternative energy, we just have to make that shift. Hmmm....which party actually cares about the environment...don't act like you don't know the answer to that.

Hmmm....you're right, let's just forget it then, it's hopeless...we'll just keep using oil, good idea. I'm going to buy a Hummer, I'll get a tax break for doing it.
Getting a 3rd party elected is far more hopeless yet you continually argue for that, stop being a hypocrite.
Having support from other countries will improve our foreign policy.

Nope, it is my opinion. Mine as well as others. How is it vague, it is merely a fact.

I wasn't aware of that.

Um, no....But I am pretty sure you'd like everyone to think so. Well, you don't fool everyone.
Besides, I don't listen to the media or the Kerry campaign.

 

Pressed Rat, don't you think we're responsible for bringing order back to a country which we demolished ourselves? Not only for the threat a country like that will have in the War on Terror, but also for the fact that the civil war that will surely follow our abrupt pullout will ruin the country even more. WE CAUSED THIS CHAOS. It was a stupid move but it's done, and I don't see how we can just up and leave. You don't think this will come back and haunt us if we leave now? Let the wound fester until it becomes a full body infection? Good idea man, right, now who's being naive...

 

Well, we could leave Iraq like we left Vietnam, with Americans clinging to choppers escaping a land overrun with insurgents. That war went on over several presidential administrations. Unlike King George, John Kerry will not repeat the mistakes we made in Vietnam. Iraq is littered with hatred, bodies, and depleted uranium. We grow weaker while our enemies grow stronger. Bush is fucking moron and John Kerry has called him out on it. Basically it was a horrible mistake we can't make right. If we keep spending money over their we will collapse our own economy. Bush proposes staying until every drop of oil is gone. Kerry proposes an orderly withdrawal. Which do you think is better for America?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

 

Hahaha, how funny. That one person made fun of me, calling me 'his echo' and that Pressed Rat is my hero. Well you know what, Pressed Rat is my hero. I think he is Bill Hicks reincarnated, even though Bill Hicks died while Pressed Rat was alive, I assume, if Pressed Rat is 22. Anyway, I'll admit, maybe I went a little overboard in my comments. I sound like a real asshole when I'm high and typing shit on here.

 

If our Lord struck you dead for using his name in vain, you would not be missed here.

 

You mean when he met with vietnam officials talking about our soldiers? Or when he bad mouthed American Soldiers? Or was it when he served the shortest known tour in Nam?

All of you are morons if you think one man will change this world. I don't care if it's Bush or Kerry, or some hopefull wanna be from the green party(the only reason they run is so they can get government funding). Nothing will change because there are still greedy asholes in this world that care more about a piece of paper with some dead guys picture on it than they care for you. Tell me how many presidents followed through on all of their "promises"! I'll give you 2 seconds to answer, it only takes 1 second to say None, the other second is for that dumb look on your face. WAKE UP FOLKS! Nothing will change until you and everyone else is ready to lay your life down and fight against this government!

 

myself i would love to come back home but the thang about it that we normally wont tell our family members/loved ones is that in a way we would stay. when i leave this hell whole i'll be leaving part of me too luckily none of my CLOSE buddies have died here although i've had a couple go home w/out arm,leg, cripled, etc etc... wut im saying is that there are guys/gals here that have lost close friends closer than family members friends that have saved their life them same ppl devote their time here to kill every enemy possible any means neccasary....... for those who cant comprehend take it like this if ur dad mom whoever is really close to u died watching ur back literally how would u feel honestly think about it...... i tell u this just so can get a little more knowldge on us over here...... to those who are against the war i fully support u and ur beliefs all that we(soldiers) ask for is that u support us bc dont forget that we had to put our life on hold for something we(most of us) didnt wanna do but had to considering its our job......

 

Actually, I've decided on my stance. I'm pro-war. I believe that war is good for eliminating ignorance from the gene pool. Intelligent people realize the stupidity of fighting, especially physically. Intelligent people refuse to be used as pawns.

 

in the spirit of your idea maybe you should enlist then. cuz the rich seem to be excused from war and that doesnt make them intelligent. lets send the special olympics team over to iraq to fight. they arent very smart either.

 

Oh, for god's sake.

Ok, first of all, the US won't be pulling out of Iraq no matter WHO gets elected. There is a REASON Iraq was invaded, and it wasn't Georgie's idea.

Yes, Iraq was invaded so the US could "get the oil," but that really simplifies things. What the US was REALLY getting was CONTROL of the oil. Mother Jones magazine published government documents something like 2 YEARS ago that were dated from the 1970's. These documents described a future plan for the US that required that the US get as much control as possible of the oil in the middle east. The reason for this is not simply because the US uses so much oil, though that is certainly a reason - but also to have the capacity to CUT OFF other nations from the oil in the event of a future conflict. With nations like China advancing in technology (particularly military), consumption and wealth, the US, if it wants to remain the sole world superpower, must control China's access to resources.

In the same Mother Jones article, a map was featured showing the US presence in the middle east prior to 1991 compared to the current presence. The US has almost completely circled the middle east with military bases, and has, at the same time, secured control of most middle eastern governments. Now that Iraq has fallen (and construction of no fewer than 12 permanent military bases is underway), there are only a few places in the region where the US does not have a signficant presence and significant control. Syria and Iran, most notably - and so it is little surprise that these nations remain a target of US threats - and none of us should be surprised to see a future attack on one or both of these nations, no matter who is in office.

These are long-term plans, my friends. We really need to stop deluding ourselves into believing that the situation in Iraq has JACK to do with George Bush, nor will the ruling elite in this nation give up their wealth and power if Kerry gets elected. In fact, it is unlikely that Kerry would even BE the democratic candidate if he weren't willing to continue these elite power games. And I assure you that if he goes too far in disrupting their plans, he will be removed like any other obstacle - probably by assasination blamed on "muslim extremists" or some nonsense.

NOW, if we really want to talk about what *should* (but won't) happen in Iraq, the only good plan for this was presented by Dennis Kucinich. He advocated the US admitting wrongdoing in Iraq at the UN and requesting replacement of ALL US troops with a multinational force which would be completely paid for by the US. Further, the US would relinquish all oil rights and close all US bases permanently. The UN would preside over immediate democratic elections. The US would pay for ALL damage done in Iraq and complete reconstruction, but would not be eligible for contracting. This is the ONLY way to prove that the US was truly contrite regarding this horrendous situation, and the ONLY way that Iraqis *might* stop revolting and put some faith in a democratic process.

So sure, the US should get the fuck out of Iraq - but should be forced to pay for the damage done and pay to fix things. But it's not going to happen - and neither is any lovey-dovey ending where Kerry somehow makes the Iraqi people love us again by crushing the *completely justified resistance* in that country (which is what he is really pledging to do). Iraq is a PRIZE - and the US elite have won. They're not going to give up their toy anytime soon - not to save lives, and CERTAINLY not for democracy or human rights.

 

speak it LaughingWillow. about time some people with good sense came on here. and to the dude who said i should enlist, i just made a point of saying 'intelligent peopel realize the stupidity of fighting'. I'm assuming that I'm a fairly intelligent person.

 

So when I come up to mug you today, I don't need to expect a fight? Cool!

Fighting can be necessary even for intelligent people. I am a pacifist, but will fight when attacked. I feel we were justified (sorta) in Afghanistan. There are issues that make me question it, but regardless, they did have terrorists operating in the country, terrorists who attacked us. Iraq, though, was not justified.

Of course, in an ideal world, war and fighting would not be necessary; it's archaic and ineffective. But clearly, this is not an ideal world.

 

Dennis Kucinich is a good man who I voted for in the primaries. The proof is that he when he lost he knew it was time to unify and he endorsed John Kerry. He did not continue on as an egomaniac like Ralph Nader under a different party name. He did what was good for America. John Kerry is as far left as America is willing to go.

 

Uh, Ralph Nader isn't a democrat, and owes no allegiance to the democrats - and frankly, I have no idea why people keep trying to act like he does. HE'S NOT A DEMOCRAT. If the Nader voters felt represented by Kerry at all, they would vote for him.