Non christians should not be able to celebrate christmas.

My family and in-laws both celebrate Christmas. My family, being VERY Christian, celebrates the birthday of Christ by piling expensive presents on relatives that they don't really know and spending so much energy criticizing each other over the huge meal that they have no time to consider anyone other than the people across the table. It's a nightmare, with sugar-coated insults and false smiles, and NO ONE is allowed to enjoy it without the mandatory Bible-reading so everyone pretends to be pensive during my mother's reading, but everyone is really thinking about the unspoken contest of who is a better Christian than who and constantly mourning that the UNSAVED have corrupted their little sacrament.

My in-laws have Standard Christians, Atheists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Agnostics, and one Neopagan (me). Except for the Jehovah's Witnesses, who refuse all holidays, The whole family celebrates Christmas as it has become in the modern day: a secular holiday to celebrate being together. They give small, personal gifts to those they are close to, hold a huge potluck-style dinner for all of the family and friends to attend. Everybody gets stuffed, and there always seems to be more leftovers than there was food to begin with. The leftovers get spread over everyone's loved ones that couldn't make it to the party, feeding dozens. I don't know how that works, but the story seems familiar sometimes. Food infused with love seems to feed more, no matter who makes it. The main tradition amongst my in-laws is that no matter how broke they are, and both of my families are "poor folk," no one they know goes hungry on the week of Christmas, and no child they know goes without a Christmas gift. Everyone bands together and finds hams and pies and turkey and distributes them as needed. Any poorer children known by the family get gifts, even if it's cheap dolls and secondhand video games. Christ's birthday is confined to small, nuclear family celebrations on the day of while the Eve is the main party.

First of all, I have to ask: Who is really mocking Christ's birthday? Is it the devout family that makes a big show of going to church every week and living the perfect Christian life, but ignores everyone else to hold the hate-fest that has become the all too common Christmas celebration for many? Or is it the secular celebration that never even mentions Christ, because not everyone believes in him there, but everyone believes in feeding the hungry and giving everyone a Merry Christmas?

Is it so horrible that one day out of the year that was once a Pagan winter festival, spent time as the main Christian holiday, and has now become so secular that for most people only the imagery of a faith is left could possibly become a day for non-faithbased "Peace on Earth, Goodwill Towards Men?" If God is love, as your Bible states, then can ANY loving act really be a mockery? Many modern faiths have some sort of day around the time of the winter solstice to celebrate caring for others (except Islam, I think, which rquires it as an alll-year sacrament similar to tithing). Why not let everybody enjoy the sentiments of the season without subjecting them to the condemnation for not sharing a name for God?

 

Like unanimous consent to start driving cars only to Work. I see, then we'd stay at home for the holiday,and then we'd have a fruitful more self-... Daah, I wonder.


But democracy was not so good in the fifties anywho,

 

Well I can definitively say he wasn’t born on Dec 25 or even in the month of Dec.

 

Nicely said Argiope

 

i am going to start celebrating the birth of a god who walked among men, born on december 25

cab calloway

MERRY CABMAS!

 

Surprisingly enough, people argue a December birth date based on when John's father Zechariah received a vision from Gabriel. He was in the Holy of Holies, so people argue it was during Yom Kippur, which was in late September, which puts his birth in late June. The Annunciation, which occurs 3 months prior to John's birth, would then be in late March, putting Jesus birth in late December (assuming 9 month pregnancies).

 

John’s father, Zechariah was not the High Priest and could not have been in the Holy of Holies because only the High Priest was allowed in the Holy of Holies and then only on the annual Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur.

The Bible at Lu 1:5-17 says that John’s Father, Zechariah was acting as priest in the assignment of his division. His division was “the division of Abijah”. Thus when it was his turn to offer incense during “the division of Abijah,” probably around late spring or early summer of 3 B.C.E., he entered the sanctuary as usual. On this occasion Jehovah’s angel Gabriel appeared to him, informing him that his supplication had been favorably heard, that his wife Elizabeth would bear a son to him, and that the boy was to be called John. Gabriel instructed Zechariah about how the boy should be raised and what this son was to accomplish.

Thus using the reasoning that you’ve shown; Instead of hearing about his son in September he heard about it in about June so instead of a December date for Jesus’ birth, his birth was more likely the beginning of October.

Also the fact that the shepherds were in the field with their flocks at night would be less likely in December a cold and rainy month, than in October a warmer month.

Also most people agree that Jesus was 33½ years old when he died so counting back from the spring of the year, when he died, you end up in the fall about the beginning of October.

 

Dec 25 272

First official public celebration of Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, a pagan Roman holiday that was later co-opted by Christians to celebrate the(supposed) birth of their favorite delusional Jew Turning the holiday into "Christmas" (in 336 AD) was part of a pattern of the church stealing various pagan festivals and feast days.

Dec 25 1926

Hirohito becomes Emperor of Japan.

Dec 25 1946

W.C. Fields dead at 67, due to the cumulative effects of his drinking and lifestyle.

Dec 25 1989

An eager firing squad executes Romanian dictator Nikolai Ceaucescu and his wife Elena on live television. Ceaucescu had run Romania as his private communist fiefdom, garnering the animosity of nearly the entire population. The new government abolishes capital punishment shortly thereafter.

Dec 25 1995

Rat pack member Dean Martin dead at 78, a martini glass in his hand.

 

now THAT was a chistmas present!!!

[cabmas, sorry]

 

Your explanation was so concise and lucid I just had to quote it all again, OWB, because that is also how I have seen it basically figured/recounted, using John (the Baptist's) birthdate as a basis.

 

I personally think everyone should look over Argiope's post again. If you call youself a christian, and love God, surely you will see that Jehovah would not want us judging others, condemning someone's happiness and love for their fellow man/woman - REGARDLESS of what day of the year it happens on...
Even though I personally do Not think (and haven't for a while) that Christ's birthday was on Dec. 25th, I am still GLAD it is celebrated when it is. For in my mind God created the heavens (the Solstice) to cycle and function as they do - a perfect time to celebrate the birth of his Son.

 

Aha, well then. Apparently the internet is not a reliable source to find information (referring to my post)

 

I've done the same thing, happens to us all.

 

Why would you be offended by something like this?

 

J.C Penny, Wal-Mart, Levi's,Microsoft and the pursuit of greed and consumption these corporations would be offended by the statement.

The REAL thing Christians worship on that ridicules day in other words.

The corporations want EVERYONE'S money not just whats in the religious nuts wallets! :bigear:

 

No-one likes a party pooper, seriously. When someone buys you a Christmas present, do you react with the diatribe above? Do you refuse it on the grounds that it is a crass act of consumerism that undermines the message of a god that you don't believe in and belief in whom you consider foolish and abusive? Would you assume that Divali had only the cynical money-making instincts of amoral candle-makers at its heart, purely because a cynical-but-ill-informed person might be able to see it that way?

Consumerism is not an invention of Christianity or of any other religion, nor is it driven by it. Pretty much every religion that I know of preaches valuing people over the accumulation of possessions. Can you show me one that doesn't?

And please, don't act like your country's economy doesn't depend on the non-Christian co-option of a Christian festival. You need Christmas just as much as any Christian

 

who on EARTH would buy rudenoodle a christmas present?

sheesh . . .

 

:snicker: party pooper...

I don't need to be told what day to be honest and kind to my friends, you obviously do.

I hope you had a great christ-mas!

 

My countries economy depends on it's government finding a new war to fight in every ten or so years. (not on Christmas)

Not that I agree with it.

What does your countries economy depend on?

 

If your country has shops in it, then no, it really does depend on the mad rush of Christmas-period consumerism. If you think it doesn't, you're just ignorant, that's all.

I am unaware of any aspect of Christianity that says that one should only refrain from deceit, spite and miserliness at Christmas. Perhaps you could deign to cite some part of a holy text (god forbid) that would support your implication.